Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 12:04:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Ronald Klop <ronald-lists@klop.ws> To: Peter Jeremy <peterj@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net> Subject: Re: boot environment and /var/db/etcupdate ? Message-ID: <284888814.115.1661335472728@localhost> In-Reply-To: <YwXlUoDPuWZLDHw%2B@server.rulingia.com> References: <389080342.286.1661263368708@localhost> <YwVaRSq6KnvPNXH6@phouka1.phouka.net> <YwXlUoDPuWZLDHw%2B@server.rulingia.com>
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------=_Part_114_202692365.1661335472722 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Van: Peter Jeremy <peterj@freebsd.org> Datum: woensdag, 24 augustus 2022 10:46 Aan: John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net> CC: Ronald Klop <ronald-lists@klop.ws>, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> Onderwerp: Re: boot environment and /var/db/etcupdate ? > > On 2022-Aug-23 15:52:53 -0700, John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net> wrote: > >On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 04:02:48PM +0200, Ronald Klop wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm running the super duper boot environment using ZFS. [1] > >> > >> I have /var and /usr/local as separate datasets. These do not change when I upgrade the OS and that keeps the backups a lot smaller as the backup sees a new BE as a new dataset and fully zfs sends all the data again. > >> > >> But when I rollback /var/db/etcupdate is not in sync with / anymore. > >> And /var/db/ports and /var/db/pkg should be kept in sync with /usr/local. But I do not need to rollback these if I need to go back to the previous BE. > > Looking in /var, the only thing I can see that needs to track the BE > is /var/db/etcupdate - everything else should preferentially be > outside the BE (and having things like e.g. /var/mail in the BE will > cause problems if you rollback the BE). > > /usr/local and /var/db/pkg need to track to prevent package installation > metadata getting out of step with the actual installed packages. > > > For my part, /var/db/pkg is mostly just a reference to my local > >poudriere package stash and is relevant to the BE (but pretty stagnant > >unless I'm changing major versions between 12/13/14). On my system, > >/var/db is part of /. > > Several database ports default to putting their data under /var/db so > having that in a BE is likely to cause problems if you rollback. > > > I'd be a little leery of having /usr/local decoupled from the BE, > >but that's mostly worried about things like kernel drivers that would > >get out of sync with the kernel in the BE. > > Kernel driver ports should all be in /boot/modules, not /usr/local (this > does mean that rolling back a BE will cause problems with the metadata > associated with those ports, but typically there are relatively few > such ports). I don't believe there are any other ports that are > tightly bound to the actual running kernel (though sysutils/lsof comes > close). > > A downside of putting /usr/local in the BE is that another large > collection of ports default to storing their data under /usr/local > and that should be decoupled from BEs. > > Overall, I don't believe there's a one-size-fits-all solution to > identifying what should be part of the BE. If you are using BEs > to switch between major versions, it probably does make sense to > include /usr/local in the BE - but then you need to extricate all > the application data that needs to not be rolled back. > > -- > Peter Jeremy > > > > Hi, I agree. I think the structure of /var is a bit inconsistent with the recommendation from the BootEnvirtonments wiki page [1] and bsdinstall [2]. AFAIS /var/db/pkg and /var/db/ports could better be in something like /usr/local/var/db. /var/db/portsnap has similar issues to stay in sync with /usr/ports. And when I do a major upgrade of pkgs I find it ok to make a separate snapshot of /usr/local. I use BEs primarily to have predictable OS upgrades. You are right the one size fits all is a hard one. And the current structure of /var makes it hard to customize also. ;-) Regards, Ronald. [1] https://wiki.freebsd.org/BootEnvironments [2] https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?bsdinstall(8) ------=_Part_114_202692365.1661335472722 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html><head></head><body> <p><strong>Van:</strong> Peter Jeremy <peterj@freebsd.org><br /> <strong>Datum:</strong> woensdag, 24 augustus 2022 10:46<br /> <strong>Aan:</strong> John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net><br /> <strong>CC:</strong> Ronald Klop <ronald-lists@klop.ws>, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org><br /> <strong>Onderwerp:</strong> Re: boot environment and /var/db/etcupdate ?</p> <blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: #000000 2px solid; margin-right: 0px"> <div class="MessageRFC822Viewer" id="P"> <div class="MultipartMixedViewer"> <div class="TextPlainViewer" id="P.P.P1">On 2022-Aug-23 15:52:53 -0700, John Kennedy <warlock@phouka.net> wrote:<br /> >On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 04:02:48PM +0200, Ronald Klop wrote:<br /> >> Hi,<br /> >><br /> >> I'm running the super duper boot environment using ZFS. [1]<br /> >><br /> >> I have /var and /usr/local as separate datasets. These do not change when I upgrade the OS and that keeps the backups a lot smaller as the backup sees a new BE as a new dataset and fully zfs sends all the data again.<br /> >><br /> >> But when I rollback /var/db/etcupdate is not in sync with / anymore.<br /> >> And /var/db/ports and /var/db/pkg should be kept in sync with /usr/local. But I do not need to rollback these if I need to go back to the previous BE.<br /> <br /> Looking in /var, the only thing I can see that needs to track the BE<br /> is /var/db/etcupdate - everything else should preferentially be<br /> outside the BE (and having things like e.g. /var/mail in the BE will<br /> cause problems if you rollback the BE).<br /> <br /> /usr/local and /var/db/pkg need to track to prevent package installation<br /> metadata getting out of step with the actual installed packages.<br /> <br /> > For my part, /var/db/pkg is mostly just a reference to my local<br /> >poudriere package stash and is relevant to the BE (but pretty stagnant<br /> >unless I'm changing major versions between 12/13/14). On my system,<br /> >/var/db is part of /.<br /> <br /> Several database ports default to putting their data under /var/db so<br /> having that in a BE is likely to cause problems if you rollback.<br /> <br /> > I'd be a little leery of having /usr/local decoupled from the BE,<br /> >but that's mostly worried about things like kernel drivers that would<br /> >get out of sync with the kernel in the BE.<br /> <br /> Kernel driver ports should all be in /boot/modules, not /usr/local (this<br /> does mean that rolling back a BE will cause problems with the metadata<br /> associated with those ports, but typically there are relatively few<br /> such ports). I don't believe there are any other ports that are<br /> tightly bound to the actual running kernel (though sysutils/lsof comes<br /> close).<br /> <br /> A downside of putting /usr/local in the BE is that another large<br /> collection of ports default to storing their data under /usr/local<br /> and that should be decoupled from BEs.<br /> <br /> Overall, I don't believe there's a one-size-fits-all solution to<br /> identifying what should be part of the BE. If you are using BEs<br /> to switch between major versions, it probably does make sense to<br /> include /usr/local in the BE - but then you need to extricate all<br /> the application data that needs to not be rolled back.<br /> <br /> -- <br /> Peter Jeremy</div> <hr /> <div class="DefaultViewer"> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br /> <br /> Hi,<br /> <br /> I agree. I think the structure of /var is a bit inconsistent with the recommendation from the BootEnvirtonments wiki page [1] and bsdinstall [2].<br /> AFAIS /var/db/pkg and /var/db/ports could better be in something like /usr/local/var/db. /var/db/portsnap has similar issues to stay in sync with /usr/ports.<br /> <br /> And when I do a major upgrade of pkgs I find it ok to make a separate snapshot of /usr/local. I use BEs primarily to have predictable OS upgrades.<br /> <br /> You are right the one size fits all is a hard one. And the current structure of /var makes it hard to customize also. ;-)<br /> <br /> Regards,<br /> Ronald.<br /> <br /> [1] https://wiki.freebsd.org/BootEnvironments<br /> [2] https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?bsdinstall(8)</body></html>; ------=_Part_114_202692365.1661335472722--
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