From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 3 03:09:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEACDD7E60 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 03:09:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A88767687 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 03:09:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 59D8ADD7E5F; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 03:09:27 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59710DD7E5E for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 03:09:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDA4B67686 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 03:09:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id u62so6520802ita.2 for ; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 19:09:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=pvnBXoo8FrhK+pRrji+LjAbPC1yafjFYegtvFjECkAM=; b=ylAxzW1uPhq43a6cmMMr389RgFN76gi9qkkJT6vNn0/J4InDTpU1oUpQ4tmzB4rzNy 82XopIUFjiLBUUtxFBRNi6xqH2o0HyTxZpauJTHiTEUocXlzvA1P0a5OIMNFoMBoNsQ6 jHbDc/bsCQ8Z1A5FgE6Al2cvetnm5a4HPKpKnTWtI0Ge/EsOcq4oPJ7QqeXM7luaAzyV uYuMTwwg/DG7pORAcaVyQXMZ1OgMpdIJFJY9dehJA2Vj0zqrNa7YI0Xj4bupqjiDJ8lg xPi+B+sOsg8UF5H+k4JITBrg/Gp00nw0iSzhxQStcaCmsi9g8BuqkYv3gHipardZubXx 6D5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pvnBXoo8FrhK+pRrji+LjAbPC1yafjFYegtvFjECkAM=; b=TGREtRvb5Arw4xrNKF79NeARTNLanD3aneUveK5HlZZmrooH1Z8/miLM5Y0YEebgHM XM4B12p5xfzGOAxRUkH3FHZPuwonNZPmjJDMr2EJusfwPvHT551U7HCiLMVL+FUqVrhe Z86TFc3P8hLyCtAkqiEIfcoxXV4dX3tW6Ow9CmQe6tWtPgWWHflc3kBbqj7iSZ51GnBw t1n89p6zLeK0RGLEUbP7QhZOVTGw03GMLAvdykHYwIpoM/6DE1sGH9aw4N9hCFdKk3Cq X2bO8t8/xapDHSsO8zfe3cNPzVyQOqqOI3zNuVCrF5l/gRz03/M36lFh3ezM6dZoqpHJ a/uA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4KOKcZ/8B9PfoPeCa1FQssBaBRW+savsKea4UwBct1yp19TACe wJWtFiPPuJtXcknhlr4xZqK7kQxmAFbji9xcISmZTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYSrslFvlEEsZ+Xw8roIWu0plH7ZtDxoCPS/FZOBj151g3YxQMpirT+isNt4KRT+5Q0FeiIf5FxBkv1B1DDiEc= X-Received: by 10.36.164.13 with SMTP id z13mr8409851ite.115.1512270565928; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 19:09:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:09:25 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 20:09:25 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -A2V9p9kMmURpcRsXrn0zQ3NVRg Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating / Removing floppy drive support To: Eitan Adler Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 03:09:27 -0000 On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 7:18 PM, Eitan Adler wrote: > Hi all, > > I'd like to remove floppy drive support from FreeBSD: > > - The physical media is no longer produced > There's still one company producing 3.5" floppies, though it's in super low volume. And the media is still readily available. > - Computers produced in the last 10-15 years don't have a floppy drive > reader > More like 8 years, but regardless of the actual year, that's also a weak argument. > - There are still a few open bug reports relating to floppies(!) > That would show it's still in use. > - Its several thousand lines of code that could be removed > Clang is much more than that. > Is there any reason to continue supporting floppy drives in FreeBSD 12.0+? That's a backwards question to project. However, to make your argument legit: Floppy support has been decaying for years. It hasn't worked well since FreeBSD 6, and was completely broken sometime after FreeBSD 10 was branched. We lost support for having two floppies on the same bus around FreeBSD 7. And using fdcontrol to set the format became tricking between FreeBSD 8 and 9. Floppies written today contain garbage due to ISA DMA breakages post FreeBSD 10. They simply don't work at all in 11, and nobody has stepped up to fix them. (I tried last summer, and gave up and got a kyroflux.com board instead). Floppies used to be important, but not any more. We've lost the only platform that required one to boot off floppies (pc98) and the older x86 that required it doesn't run FreeBSD anymore anyway. We never supported fdc on non x86 platforms, so those aren't a consideration. We do have some floppy support in umass, but that should stay since USB floppy drives are still a thing. Normally, I'd argue we might want to have a release where it's deprecated, but it already was unusable in 11, and barely usable in 10 and has been a shadow of its former self for much longer than that. Warner