From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 30 00:59:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C3316A4CF for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:59:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte215.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AC543D41 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:59:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from [192.168.1.16] (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) iAU0xN8m010072 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:59:24 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> References: <20041129024602.GA23324@turingmachine.mentalsiege.net> <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.5 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=4.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,MISSING_HEADERS,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: The beastie boot menu. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:59:29 -0000 --On Monday, November 29, 2004 6:14 PM +0100 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Quoting Adam Fabian : >> Was reading the CVS all list, and it's gone. I, for one, kind of >> liked it. It was a bit of a shock the first time, comparing with 4.x, >> but it didn't take long to get used to it, and it's kind of useful. > > It's very useful. And it lives on in Dragonfly, with different ascii art. > > More evidence that FreeBSD is losing all touch with regular users. What is a regular user? I use FreeBSD quite regularly. I am a regular guy and I use FreeBSD. Using FreeBSD keeps me, he-hem, regular. I will assume I am qualified to comment, as a regular user. The beastie menu is just another level of complexity. It has very little to do with anything. I had to learn about Forth in order to figure out how to turn it off. Learning about Forth is not something I wanted to do. Forth is hardly a regular user sort of thing. Sure, once I dilly dallied in the docs, I figured out what was going on. It did take time. "Regular user" as the term may be applied to FreeBSD and the user community has a vastly different meaning than regular user in other computing circles. The absence of the boot menu is substantially more regular to FreeBSD in my opinion than its presence. FreeBSD is not the operating system where cutesy is valued. As far as Matt Dillon goes, he is a big boy now. He is more than capable of coding what ever it is he wants to code. Dragonfly's direction is substantially different from FreeBSD. Matt is free to do as he pleases. I dare say that even with a present boot menu, that Dragonfly is not for regular users. It is for extraordinary users. That doesn't mean its better or worse. Its just different. Of the things I read about Dragonfly, user friendliness is not one of the things I recall as being a design goal.