From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 11 14:44:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07313 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07238 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23502; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:43:26 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980612074319.25355@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:43:20 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Andrew Boothman Cc: Loren Thiel , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: KDE [was: Where's X go?] References: <19980611185942.19282@welearn.com.au> <35802F1C.924D0F99@boothman.easynet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <35802F1C.924D0F99@boothman.easynet.co.uk>; from Andrew Boothman on Thu, Jun 11, 1998 at 08:25:16PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 11, 1998 at 08:25:16PM +0100, Andrew Boothman wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > Rebuilding the kernel > > simply in order to try one of the many window managers is a bit extreme > > in one's early days. > > > > I thought that rebuilding the kernel was a recommended thing to do as > soon as you are installed? To remove unwanted drivers and stuff. Advice like this, when it comes from someone who know what they're talking about, has to be taken in context. Without the right context everyone is misled. For example, I can imagine that someone with a good deal of unix experience who is about to change over to FreeBSD for the first time and will be setting up a server to run as efficiently as possible might want to build a lean mean kernel right away. Traditionally most FreeBSD users have been assumed to fall into this category. But I know many who use FreeBSD on their machine at home and never touch the kernel, GENERIC meets their needs fine. This is not a comment on what should be done (it would not be appropriate to suggest that here) but an observation on the range of needs and understandings of FreeBSD users. > That's what I picked up from > freebsd-newbies/freebsd-stable/comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc You don't read freebsd-questions, but you read freebsd-stable? That's an unusual choice. > Am I right? > > I've never installed or used FreeBSD, but I will be doing in 2 to 3 > weeks. Hence I'm already reading the mailing lists and newsgroups. > > In my opinion all this reading has got me far better prepared then any > FAQ or handbook. There is a better way then learning by making mistakes, > and that's learning from other people's mistakes! :-) Hmmm, you might have made your first two learning mistakes already if you have avoided the FAQ and Handbook, and if you have chosen not to read freebsd-questions. You don't need to read freebsd-stable unless you are going to follow that branch, which is not the appropriate way to go for most people, especially newbies. What you read there will not apply to the current RELEASE version. The Handbook explains the differences. The people who know a lot about FreeBSD all hang out in one place and only one place: freebsd-questions. There they answer questions on any topic at any level. If someone gives a wrong or misleading answer, it's visible to hundreds of others ready to correct them. If your purpose is to watch what people are saying and how people are using FreeBSD, that is where you should be. Here, even as a newbie, I could get away with telling you anything I like and there's few people within earshot who could correct me. Indeed, if I fancied myself as a budding expert but couldn't compete with the standards of freebsd-questions I could exploit the little puddle of freebsd-newbies to achieve guru status with a bunch of admiring newbies who couldn't tell if what I said was incorrect :-) If support questions were already asked and answered here it would be open slather. Many of us who have moved over from Linux are sick to death of guessing between six wrong answers. For these and many other reasons we try to keep actual support and advice out of freebsd-newbies and have it centralised in freebsd-questions. It reduces the burden for the volunteers who only need to follow one mailing list to offer help, and ensures quality through peer review of all advice. Sometimes, though, there are other issues that newbies need to discuss, where there is no overlap with freebsd-questions, and where a bit of discussion here can help us better formulate the questions we ask elsewhere. There is much that only another newbie can understand, but none of this is technical. In the case of KDE I walked that thin line because I have seen newbies with very little background being advised something like "oh, just rebuild your kernel, it's easy" without any insight into the real difficulties that this would present for some newbies, eg new computer users who haven't even got X running properly yet. I expect that regular members of this list would know to use that information to better structure their freebsd-questions questions and better use their answers. Like I said earlier, traditionally FreeBSD has been used by people who already have many years of unix and networking experience. Unless you say "I'm a newbie" you're likely to be treated as the default (experienced) type of user. Only in freebsd-newbies you're likely to be treated as if you know less than you do. The computer newbie running a fun workstation at home is a new and rapidly growing addition to our community, who the community is just starting to come to terms with. A lot of them are readers of this mailing list. Newbies have been visible as a diverse group with our own mailing list for only a couple of months. Already we've done a lot for ourselves and helped others to help us better, without having to try to do what freebsd-questions already does well. If there's anything else you'd like to see for newbies, please mention it here. Maybe it will be done. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message