From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Apr 14 00:10:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11174 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6597.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10861 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:08:57 GMT (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00821; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:06:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 03:06:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: "Eric S. Raymond" cc: Anatoly Vorobey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Open Source Products In-Reply-To: <19980414015920.30944@snark.thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > None of the above. What I expect will happen (not `want', but `expect') > is that the BSDs will run out of development energy because the people > who would otherwise join them will decide it makes more sense to be where > the crowds (and the attention, and the money) are, over in Linuxland. I think, ultimately, that we are trying to predict the future, and history has been notoriously hard on people doing this. Look, perhaps three years from now FreeBSD will be gone, but in the meantime, there will be people coming from The Other Side for whom, for whatever reason, Linux is simply not attractive. Maybe the perceived chaos is too big a jump. Maybe the SysV nature. Maybe the damn penguin, who knows! For some of these people, FreeBSD can provide an easier introduction to Our Side, a stepping-stone, if you will, until they too join the great big blob of Linux. By providing choice, we are helping the general cause. What I'm saying here is that it's ok to believe that the *BSDs will be gone in three years, but please do _not_ try to prod us onto our death. Systematic manipulation with the intent to harm the *BSDs in Linux's favour has been going on. Even when you, in a much less malicious fashion, ignore or downplay the *BSDs in your comments, that is hurting us, and hurting The Cause in general. If, for a new convert, one of the *BSDs is the right choice, then you should reccomend or at least mention it, instead of simply saying "Use Linux; Linux is the future!". A happy convert is a better convert, and if a *BSD makes them happier, then . . . > OK, you can come back at me with "If that's the way it works, why hasn't > Windows won?" But the cases aren't parallel. There's a lot of stuff you > just can't do in Windows. Moving to Linux, OTOH, doesn't lose developers > a lot and lets them respect themselves in the morning. ;-) Suffice it to say, I disagree strongly and have no personal doubt that FreeBSD will survive past the millenium. However, I don't think this matters. You should refrain, and encourage others to refrain, from campaigns against the *BSDs because, regardless of the future, that is the best thing for Our Side. Those converted to the *BSDs will have time to move to Linux when Linux is ready for them, but until then, if a *BSD suits them better, they should use it. > I'm sorry but I just don't find unified userland much of a draw. The > flip side of unified userland is that you throw away Linux's potential > to be all things to all people. Similarly, the idea that I can make Bah! I don't buy it. > BTW, I understand I actually have code in the FreeBSD kernel. Somebody > told me you guys use a variant of the PC speaker driver I wrote for SysV way > back when. If this is still true, it's very amusing considering where I > spend most of my hacking time these days. I don't have code in the > *Linux* kernel... :-) We try to accomodate all developers. ;-) -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message