From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 29 16:02:22 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BB64F40; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:02:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [IPv6:2001:470:1f11:75::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01087DF1; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:02:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C721AB986; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:02:20 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Eitan Adler Subject: Re: junior kernel tasks Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:55:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.4-CBSD-20140415; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20141025204536.GD19066@dft-labs.eu> <20141028221413.GF26796@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201410291155.53950.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Mateusz Guzik , "bugmeister@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current Current , Marcus von Appen X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:02:22 -0000 On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:07:31 pm Eitan Adler wrote: > On 28 October 2014 15:14, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 09:35:26PM +0100, Marcus von Appen wrote: > >> > >> Quoting John Baldwin : > >> > >> > On Saturday, October 25, 2014 4:45:36 pm Mateusz Guzik wrote: > >> >> Hello, > >> >> > >> >> In short, nice kernel tasks people with C language skills can do in few > >> >> evenings. > >> >> > >> >> https://wiki.freebsd.org/JuniorJobs > >> >> > >> >> It is assumed you know how to obtain sources and build the kernel. > >> >> > >> >> What you can get in return: > >> >> - your own code in FreeBSD tree > >> >> - eternal glory [1] > >> >> - fun [2] > >> >> > >> >> If you are not interested, but know someone who does, please pass it > >> >> down. > >> >> > >> >> [1] - not really, no > >> >> [2] - well, I guess that's subjective, so that's not a "no" > >> > > >> > Even though our bugmeisters have decided that we should not have wishlist > >> > items in our bug tracker, I really wish we could store the various idea lists > >> > (we have several) in an issue tracker instead. This would allow for folks to > >> > comment on ideas, vote for them, etc. It would also make it easier for more > >> > people to submit new ideas. > >> > > >> > >> Speaking not strictly with the bugmeister hat, but from experience, please do > >> not let us go down the road of (ab)using a bug tracking solution as task and > >> idea management system. I think that using the tasks feature of phabricator > >> (our reviews instance) would provide better workflow support for those things, > >> starting out from sketching out rough ideas, discussing them, breaking them up > >> in seperate tasks (linked to and dependent on each other) and collaborating > >> on them (take a look at https://developer.blender.org/T42339 for a > >> brief example). > >> > >> Having said this, let's keep the bug tracker a bug tracker. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Marcus > > > > I disabled the tasks on phabricator to avoid having it a duplicate of bugzilla, > > but if we have a use for it I can activate it! > > > > Actually I do like the idea of the bug tracker aka bugzilla being only for bugs > > and uxe phabricator for tracking the tasks > > having disparate trackers for "wishlist" and "bugs" is quite harmful > and splits the conversations. It makes people learn multiple systems > and search multiple places - especially if the feature ends up being > submitted as a patch to the bug tracker. > > I'd rather keep wishlist items in the bug tracker than split them into two. > > (also, fwiw, I'd rather keep the tasks number space clean should we > ever decide to import from bugzilla -> phabricator) I'm not tied to a specific issue tracker to use for this and am happy to other folks debate which implementation is best, but what I would prefer is a system to let us manage "ideas to implement" like the ideas page for GSoC and this wiki page. The desired output is a list of vetted tasks. A task might start out as a wishlist entry, but someone has to step up and say "yes, this is a good idea and I will review it / shepherd it, etc." for it to become a "vetted task". Being able to store conversation about each task and tag it with other meta data (e.g. tagging the person who "owns" the task and will do the review / sheperding as well as being able to categorize them, etc.) However, I do think one important thing is that when a new idea is submitted, it has a built-in sunset. If no one grabs it after time X it becomes closed instead of remaining an open wishlist forever. Similarly if the "owner" of a task drops ownership, the timer would start while waiting for a new owner. However, this does feel very much like an issue tracker. -- John Baldwin