From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Thu Mar 7 02:26:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330E81508199 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 02:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (tunnel82308-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:ccb::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845D586D77 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 02:26:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x272PxYF085247; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) id x272PwEr085245; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23680.33077.883594.613635@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:57 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman To: Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert In-Reply-To: <201903061332.x26DWu3f004292@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org> <201903061332.x26DWu3f004292@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (hergotha.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Mar 2019 21:25:59 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS autolearn=disabled version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hergotha.csail.mit.edu X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:32:34 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:26:07 -0000 < said: > In message <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org>, Lev > Serebryakov > writes: >> On 05.03.2019 22:55, Shawn Webb wrote: >> >> >> This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Perciv= >> al was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and prof= >> it many years ago. >> >=20 >> > Weird machines are weird. >> Not-weird machines are dead-slow :-( > Picking a random email in this thread to reply. > The problem is that there are so many of these Spectre class of > exploits that we collectively roll our eyes. Yet another one is not > news any more. And that's likely the way it's going to be, absent some major new discovery or a complete revolution in the way we program computers (which probably puts FreeBSD out of a job). I actually attended a very interesting talk by John Hennessey today in which he discussed (at a very high level) one idea for where this goes, and it's very definitely in the mode of completely different programming models combined with completely different hardware designs. One big part of this is that more compute hardware is going the way of GPUs, where the only supported interface is provided by a blob of proprietary software so the hardware vendor is much more free to change the implementation without maintaining hardware-level (or even ISA-level) compatibility. And a lot more hardware explicit fetch/store to different levels of the memory hierarchy. -GAWollman