From owner-freebsd-geom@freebsd.org Sat Jul 11 13:15:59 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-geom@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3983F3C for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:15:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D971F1004 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:15:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by wiga1 with SMTP id a1so35101586wig.0 for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 06:15:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DR3h7xfR2YYB6d797WirYzF7o7NgTSJlCcyaj00PHc0=; b=FE4Z2lnEifbB7LgcFr3uhMGBjQMqnnbZKkqU3TbNfqieFDHIGPgLyDfePtag8nVthm cfAuZkuzICfmraepY8K2s1FDhvhHjLg2gp1oCN6+HsYH8jZOCmC4Agmz8rAUxMomFpVC vA0czjB0dnh4Xqwmp0gHgjtWAtrGIm6CZkY10IxVHbxOsu32kqCPtXKoBYo83HrMbwUe MRAia0HbNuGYIzgbNfxgViQBkQOlOxTx4ppJ+u2hf3B1PXhNfa2NbGIKin939IB4EQ1b pMx3PlqEsFmZ++ippjBzUYeX8alKwBPfJuGZ8KenfjFB+Mz6XLHmtnF47FoctudRxFHK 9/0g== X-Received: by 10.194.77.97 with SMTP id r1mr47513174wjw.98.1436620557415; Sat, 11 Jul 2015 06:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (5ec1f6f9.skybroadband.com. [94.193.246.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bg6sm18134182wjc.13.2015.07.11.06.15.55 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 11 Jul 2015 06:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:15:53 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-geom@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: Pass TRIM through GELI Message-ID: <20150711141553.3fcf91f4@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20150710222837.GE96394@over-yonder.net> References: <20150308000131.GP1742@over-yonder.net> <20150324021924.GQ52331@over-yonder.net> <20150502125220.GS78376@over-yonder.net> <20150629013841.GO50491@over-yonder.net> <20150710200055.GB1270@garage.freebsd.pl> <20150710222837.GE96394@over-yonder.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.11.1 (GTK+ 2.24.27; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-geom@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: GEOM-specific discussions and implementations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:15:59 -0000 On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:28:37 -0500 Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > 2) Security. For whatever your threat model is, leaking the "how much > space is in use" datum is unacceptable. It's not about how much space is free, it's about giving away which blocks do and don't contain data. Perhaps more importantly TRIM breaks plausible deniabily, which was the the point of allowing the geli metadata to be store separately. You can't argue that a partition has been wiped with 'dd if=/dev/random ...' if the the partition has been subsequently trimmed.