From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 28 18:30:56 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7D2662E45 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:30:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wfdudley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GZj0H6ssMz4mpH for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wfdudley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id o20so4840553oiw.12 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 11:30:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Y9l4n918orc15b0ZcfVtTTf3jGw5UgU5SQ6qIXctHMg=; b=Gk4rQvTlrs0acYTyd76h+DXrjgH02fQjCUMOdwdbDzIXPBruUxTCZj0qbKQouE9jJO BG+/CN6Ynowjkuw/ZL0NLXc5tWIGeMRcDNQg3d/oWNUE4DEjIt9GXpAyub2qw5IykxEa Y+FSZL0+5WJd2j4zAGmOWc0olhBBSl8rUqPBd7joEFZpfwY1q8dLnjvTwhdnQ4g0AzuO WGwSM9qdE/v618857GXDIfG6SNs2chn0499xCNQbHC85opqG2dMdgzYVtHHZO+i+amps FU8dSlL2nb+3UJF9LgxxzfL3GjcUx9efx6jpNHRM2d2OjMn1+wvuKRGPU5M+azRaYZP3 Mb5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Y9l4n918orc15b0ZcfVtTTf3jGw5UgU5SQ6qIXctHMg=; b=VOaxhNb1IkjQIr4A+hatBYIJaWlIvuQLNBDZ7IdyS6ud4Pa6/hlpkBQSg1QP92jZIJ VrUaClTflgePfsLJgb0K6Tyz4Rx3sFK6pnSY5kqF9gu1kZvEV35Bai1q5/nJdtH1tXII IpVoAP0ViLOSD9UP2p/eDqZig08KunJSyNxb14mkH4QNJ33a++dSaOC5o6YBZXuh0SzF jKD228kt1TG5j+Vi2f+jCgSxPgU7Pybwmat4fHTrtxjsFpywJZ1z68jwou0DTRKaX2/f p2/NqQ1hgRUO+vt87tUvdUS/CmruIQabwQO+4Gu1xrkxXyz7M2DDARfLn2a/1TkpJLYe NItA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530RpaKLq5oxYy8j75gXPT1Cspl+oRDJ8J0NOEh6SPpSTrNW159a IvEKECzHdBIXTFiC6KuRy+hcqEtOdqNHw/6vhyGQkuI9Zwk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxJxGujengEf5Vn4CUW52W0ziQtCS9raH1ZYrWF2UHeiOfj7QRz3imC1SEcWF/Nwdb8yJdnsZPYFb/38pP2dKE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:aaf:: with SMTP id r15mr7488442oij.80.1627497055251; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 11:30:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44pmv2tlxs.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> In-Reply-To: <44pmv2tlxs.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> From: William Dudley Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 14:30:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to upgrade Mailman and keep Let's Encrypt ? To: Lowell Gilbert , freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4GZj0H6ssMz4mpH X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Gk4rQvTl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wfdudley@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wfdudley@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.01 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.993]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::234:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:30:56 -0000 Lowell, Thanks for your reply. I should have done more "pkg search" -- it turns out that certbot/acme are also available as a py38 package, so that solves the problem if I want to migrate to mailman 3. I just did some "research" on mlmmj, which initially looked promising, until I realized it hadn't had any work done on it since 2017! DMARC has made mailing lists challenging, and mlmmj has had no work done to it to handle that challenge. People are using mlmmj, from what I can see by googling, but also migrating from mlmmj to mailman and others. I have installed and played with Sympa, but it seems fiddly compared to mailman. It "works" but I haven't put it in production. I haven't experimented with mailman 3 at all. Bill Dudley On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 12:58 PM Lowell Gilbert < freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org> wrote: > William Dudley writes: > > > I'm running 11.4-RELEASE-p9, and obviously, it's time to move to 12. > > > > I'm running Mailman 2.1.34 which uses deprecated Python 27. > > > > I realized that when I move to FreeBSD 12, I will no longer have Python > 27, > > so Mailman 2 will no longer work. > > That's not actually true. Python2.7 is still present, and mailman2 still > works for now. I don't know, pragmatically speaking, when that will > cease to be the case. > > > When I do "pkg search mailman), I find the following: > > > > mailman-2.1.34 Mailing list manager with user-friendly > web > > front-end > > py38-mailman-3.3.1 GNU Mailing List Management System, Core > > According to my understanding, mailman3 is not currently a full > replacement for mailman2. > > > As an experiment, on a spare machine, I tried: > > > > pkg install py38-mailman-3.3.1 > > > > However, there is a conflict between py38 and py37, and so pkg wants to > > uninstall: > > > > py37-acme-1.16.0,1 ACME protocol implementation in Python > > py37-certbot-1.16.0,1 Let's Encrypt client > > Both of those can be built with python3.8 (anything from 3.6 on, I > think, based on their makefiles), so py38 is an option if you don't mind > having to compile those from ports. Also, mailman3 (again, according to > its makefile) can be built with any python from 3.5 on. > > > That won't do, as I host several websites on the same machine with the > > mailman installation and they all want to have https (obviously). > > > > How do I solve this? > > A common answer is to move from mailman to another list manager. mlmmj > seems to be popular for this purpose. Another common answer is to > continue to hang onto mailman2 in hopes that something else will emerge > before you need to make the jump to another option. > > If you want to try mailman3 and stick with prebuilt packages, it might > make sense to create a python38 jail. It would have to share some data > access with the web servers, but that can be done safely. > > Good luck. >