From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 22:00:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBF07106566B for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:00:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D248FC19 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r55.edvax.de (port-92-195-45-144.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.45.144]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D701E470; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:00:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r55.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r55.edvax.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id p2TM08hc001609; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:00:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:00:07 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Jerry McAllister Message-Id: <20110330000007.99a555cf.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20110329213936.GA84631@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <20110329144527.c009ba8b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20318_1301430722_4D9241C2_20318_86_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499BD354C76@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> <20110329204501.GH2281@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <0148AA41-E800-477F-94BF-2D27E864053F@adelaide.edu.au> <20110329212348.GI2281@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20110329213936.GA84631@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd general questions Subject: Re: Easiest desktop BSD distro X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:00:10 -0000 On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:39:36 -0400, Jerry McAllister wrote: > Just a nit here -- I would think of BSD as less cluttered > rather than simpler. The definition of "simple" is individual, it depends on present knowledge and the ability of thinking (concluding, deriving, understanding). Simple things SIMPLE, complex things POSSIBLE. FreeBSD utilizes this approach by providing small "units" that fulfill a certain purpose and that can be combined to do something more complex, instead of trying to build a "one size fits all" complex that denies the simplest choices. Sadly, such things are more common in software than you want them to be... > Those that have all the extra built-ins with no thinking required > tend to be more complicated, not simpler. They just cover it up > by allowing fewer choices -- as you imply above. A good preconfiguration does help. If common tasks are already well prepared, built-ins can be very helpful. Instead, you often find a "pile of garbage" in software that you're forced to pick what you intend to use, always hoping it will work as intended. If problems occur and you want to diagnose what's wrong - well, big problem. As nobody thought of doing so, you don't have the option to diagnose anything. Is THAT simple? I don't think so. +----------------------------+ | | | An error occured! | | | | (Yes) (No) (All) | | | +----------------------------+ :-) The often called attribute "simple" does take the opportunity to LEARN. As it has been initially mentioned, the OP wants to learn BSD. So how can anybody learn if there is no way to do so, because the "simple" concept states: You'll do it THAT way. You can't do it differently. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Period. Reboot and try again. There's also the belief (as in church) that certain systems or programs are simple because WHEN problems occur, they are ignored, or solving them is delegated to somebody else who has the knowledge and experience to do so. For the user, the mystic "It's so simple, it does anything on its own!" prevails and gets communicated to others, although it's just wrong. Aggressive advertising also uses this approach. After all, I'll repeat my statement: PCs are not simple. Face it, it's a fact. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...