Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Sat, 12 May 2007 11:09:35 +0200
From:      Michel Talon <talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr>
To:        Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
Cc:        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: DPS Initial Ideas
Message-ID:  <20070512090935.GA13929@lpthe.jussieu.fr>
In-Reply-To: <17989.8202.624522.136573@bhuda.mired.org>
References:  <20070512004209.GA12218@lpthe.jussieu.fr> <17989.8202.624522.136573@bhuda.mired.org>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 10:01:46PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote:
> In <20070512004209.GA12218@lpthe.jussieu.fr>, Michel Talon <talon@lpthe.jussieu.fr> typed:
> > One of the most obvious being that the sqlite database can be edited
> > as easily as a pure textfile using the sqlite3 program
> 
> Huh? They can? With a pure textfile, if vi is busted, I can use ed. If
> ed is also busted, I can use sed. What do I use on an sqlite database
> if sqlite3 is busted?

Answering both you and Bill Moran:

- first i don't suppose sqlite3 is busted, since i suppose it is in the
  base system and it works by definition. Your hypothesis is alike, what
do i do to edit my config files if vi and ed are busted? Moreover if
sqlite3 gets really busted i can import a copy and hope it works, it
requires very few libraries and other files, not much more than vi, 
plus the sqlite3 library, of course. The combined size of sqlite3
and libsqlite3 is less than 400k.
- second, if i am sql allergic, it takes one command to export the table
  to a straight file, each row in a line, each field separated by | or
anything else of my choice. Exactly the same tools that you have
mentioned allow to edit this file, and then one command allows to load
it in the database.
- so what are the benefits? They are that non sql impaired people can
  make good use of the power of sql queries to simplify their work. And
this without reducing the possibilities of sql impaired people. Moreover
one can use  general tools like graphic sql tools to present the
contents of the database to the end user in a pleasant way if it is
desired. And finally it may be that the transactional properties of
sqlite can be used to gain better reliablity.
- is the cost of including sqlite in the base system so high that  
the above benefits are insufficient? Personnally i don't know, but i
think some discussion is at least in order.
- and finally to answer one of Bill's critiques, why sqlite rather than 
a Berkeley database? Precisely because sqlite offer a lot of facilities 
that Berkeley db doesn't offer, such as export and import to and from 
csv files, auto documentation of the table contents, while it requires
in fact programming and knowledge of the api of the database to hand
edit the Berkeley db.

Anyways, i have read that Marc Espie is envisioning using sqlite3 for
OpenBSD package system, and that he is very satisfied with what he has
seen up to now. If this enters production, perhaps this will confer
BSD legitimity to such practices ... Seriously, the FreeBSD package
system is in great need of a profound overhaul, pretending it works well
is complete denial of reality. I hope that young people working on 
summer code projects will infuse *new* ideas, and not spend their
vacations polishing inadequate tools.


-- 

Michel TALON




Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20070512090935.GA13929>