From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Dec 27 15:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17327 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA17322 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 15:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA21774; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:47:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19981228104750.15675@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:47:50 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mark Ovens , Brett Glass , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws) References: <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981226104824.05822710@mail.lariat.org> <36854A89.B393D402@uk.radan.com> <19981227112355.B12346@freebie.lemis.com> <4.1.19981227111018.057c04c0@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981227112512.059b06e0@mail.lariat.org> <3686A237.E0701780@uk.radan.com> <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981228100751.P12346@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 28, 1998 at 10:07:51AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 21:10:15 +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: > >> At 01:25 PM 12/27/98 -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> > >>> pah-ehh-yah is more like it... > >> > >> Somewhere in between, I think. It's not QUITE pronounced > >> as a short "e". > >> > > > > Which was the point I was making in my post. It's bloody difficult for > > Engish speakers (and a few other languages by the sound of it) to > > pronounce it _exactly_ right, as a Spanish speaker would because that > > sound doesn't exist in English. Therefore, when some words come into > > common use in another language the pronounciation changes, which is what > > I said in reply to Brett stating > > > > "....when the English adopt a word from another language, they cannot > > seem to use it as-is. They seem to feel COMPELLED to shift at least the > > accented syllables and often the vowels.". > > It's not a problem of the sounds, all of which any native English > speaker uses in normal conversation. The problem is representing them > so that people can understand them. It doesn't even always help if > they say them to you, because you'll subconsciously strip off the part > that you attribute to their accent. > > True story: > > Some years back, in Germany, we had an American girl working with > us, an unusual situation in those days. On one occasion, I was > talking with one of my German colleagues about a (FORTRAN) program > he was writing, and he referred to the `cummen' section. I said > ``That's pronounced `common', not `cummen'''. He said, ``that's > because you're Australian. The Americans pronounce it `cummen'''. > So we asked (forgot what her name was) how she pronounced it. She > said `common'. My German colleague said ``see? She said > `cummen'''. No, I'm sure she would have said "cummen", or at least "caahmen". You said yourself that the o sound is one that the Americans don't use. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message