From nobody Fri Aug 8 14:02:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5Mr1CzVz63tq8; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:03:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sm@codenetworks.net) Received: from relayout04-q02.dominioabsoluto.net (relayout04-q02.dominioabsoluto.net [217.116.26.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz5Mq5Dbgz3vMb; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:03:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sm@codenetworks.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from relayout04-redir.dominioabsoluto.net (relayout04-redir.dominioabsoluto.net [217.116.26.101]) by relayout04.dominioabsoluto.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5Mn10Wbz2ht2; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 16:03:01 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=codenetworks.net; s=domabs; t=1754661781; bh=jMnNHJBPIyadRQ7coB0/mex7Y1xbgWPlVzP8Xl6WVBc=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:From; b=pmC1xVNy3bT4XgNAJGNOTsQdwsgZKNmq7hlNPAGFqvGQJMUL/QT+tXwsW4huthC1Y rJy34cCX3nesST+C55XlLkmT+VPd1UGsQYE+WuhbJyic66cm+B3VuBkxivg3FDtBL/ 3s5nby+nkP8hMplsk674O4DAtUp9kQ6ypC1Tb6bs= Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [188.241.98.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sm.codenetworks.net) by relayout04-dsp.dominioabsoluto.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz5Mm0Yg3z3G8l; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 16:03:00 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Santiago Martinez List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 16:02:47 +0200 Message-Id: References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> Cc: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22F76) X-PostalOut-Country: IP: 188.241.98.146 | Country: ES X-PostalOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout04 X-PostalOut-MsgID: 4bz5Mm0Yg3z3G8l.A9E66 X-PostalOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-PostalOut-From: sm@codenetworks.net X-PostalOut-Watermark: 1755266581.03946@hWTV5RrFL6dpYAEWjBGzYg X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz5Mq5Dbgz3vMb X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16371, ipnet:217.116.24.0/21, country:ES] Hi David, I see your point. For me, no pkg command (upgrade / install : delete / lock) should act on bas= e without the user explicitly targeting base.=20 This is the same we have today. No extra complexity or confusion, actually i= t is quite simple , if you want to touch your base system just explicitly ta= rgeting it ( what we do today with FreeBSD-update) Regarding the non-base package dependencies with base, it will be also the s= ame as today. If this is something we are looking to get rid of then is a di= fferent situation. Nothing stops the user from upgrading base (target base) then upgrading the r= est. Or to have a target that is =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D. I think most of the FreeBSD user like the separation of base and non base an= d the current status seems to get rid of it. Hence some of us are putting a= ttention to it ( maybe too much) Santi > On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:47, David Chisnall wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 8 Aug 2025, at 14:20, Santiago Martinez w= rote: >>=20 >> For example =E2=80=9Cpkg upgrade -t base=E2=80=9D, to act on FreeBSD base= and =E2=80=9Cpkg upgrade=E2=80=9D to perform actions on non-base packages. >=20 > You are assuming that there are two repositories. Since its introduction,= `pkg` has supported an unlimited number of repositories, and in a pkgbase w= orld, I=E2=80=99d expect large-scale systems to have four: >=20 > - Packages built from base. > - Packages built from ports that are tied to the kernel version. > - Packages built from ports that are expected to work across all of the su= pported base systems in a major release series. > - Packages built from other sources for local deployment. >=20 > The last three exist today even without pkgbase. There may also be other t= hird-party (non-ports) package sets. >=20 > You can already act on a specific repository by passing -r to `pkg`. The t= hing you seem to want is for *some* actions to not apply to all repositories= . I think that will lead to far more confusion in the long term. For examp= le: >=20 > If I do `pkg upgrade`, do you expect everything to be upgraded? I do. An= d if it doesn=E2=80=99t, I expect there will be a lot of confusion because a= minor release dropping out of the support window will change the minimum re= quirements for the base system and so failing to upgrade base-system package= s will cause breakage in packages built from ports. =20 >=20 > So if we avoid that breakage, and say that `pkg upgrade` applies to all pa= ckages, but `pkg delete -a` doesn=E2=80=99t. Now we have inconsistency acro= ss subcommands. And that=E2=80=99s also confusing. >=20 > David >=20