Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:08:25 -0700 From: Greg Fortune <megatontech@pacbell.net> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, Ken McGlothlen <mcglk@artlogix.com> Cc: security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-02:21.tcpip Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020419101925.00ab2200@postoffice.pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020418202335.0229b540@nospam.lariat.org> References: <878z7k4oz9.fsf@ralf.artlogix.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020418143615.021a8460@nospam.lariat.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020418095356.024354c0@nospam.lariat.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020417230144.032ad390@nospam.lariat.org> <200204171923.g3HJNga58899@freefall.freebsd.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020418095356.024354c0@nospam.lariat.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020418143615.021a8460@nospam.lariat.org>
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--Boundary_(ID_DK/v9UVviBTmeeeLTnWvgA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 08:30 PM 4/18/2002 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >Having a local build server is a nice idea, especially if you're >a large shop, but doesn't get newcomers a safe version to install >(important; if they're hacked they'll sour on FreeBSD) or give >an admin a build to which she can just upgrade quickly and know >that the latest holes are closed. > >--Brett Brett, I've been watching this thread quietly, as I am a "newcomer" to FreeBSD. However your intimation that we'll run for the hills like children at the first sign of difficult offends me. First, anyone connected to the net who ever thinks that their box is ever "safe" needs a reality check. Pretty good assumption for a newcomer, eh? I came to FreeBSD because of its security and groups like this. If my site gets hacked, I'm not going to "sour" on FreeBSD, I'm going to take advantage of this group and all the other wonderful resources available to this community and figure out what I need to learn to do better. Just because we're new to FreeBSD doesn't mean we're sheep. We all know where the sheep graze. Nobody ever told me that FreeBSD was easy. Nobody ever told me it was secure "out of the box". What I heard was that if I was willing to learn how to do it, FreeBSD has the potential to be one of the most powerful and secure operating systems out there. I never thought that all the work was going to be done for me, or that the process would be easy of end. If technology was easy, sysadmins would get paid minimum wage and have to wear polyester uniforms and funny little hats. Anyone who runs from an OS due to their own inability to learn how to properly configure/maintain it can go run Windows and contribute to Microsoft's ongoing track record for security and stability. You sound like you know exactly what you want. Why not put it together? Hey, if you build it, it'll be done exactly the way you want it done, won't it? Don't let this opportunity pass you up! Here's your chance to have a piece of FreeBSD work perfectly for you! I'd code it, but my skills aren't up to snuff (yet) and I don't figure that any of these kind people should have to bear the burden of holding my hand. So I send my money to O'Reilly and I spend my time learning how to do new things. One of these days I will contribute to this body of work, but not until I've got the chops (I'd like to fix bugs, not introduce them ;-) ). If you aren't careful, one of these days you'll be griping about the update mechanism I wrote, because I won't code it the way you want, I'll code it the way I want. Life is wonderful when you just deal with what IS. I read this list to learn how to use the tools I currently have to do the best job I can, not to watch theory wars via email. If you don't like things the way they are, step up to the plate and do something about it. Otherwise, we all heard what you said, so please remain in the audience and take your seat. Personally, my hat's off to the fine folks who post the security notices, analyze the bugs, write the code, debug the code, and maintain the source tree, all for a FREE OS! Without the people who actually do all the work that you're complaining about, you'd have to do all that work yourself (or "sour" on FreeBSD, as you put it). Try applying THAT across 1000 servers sometime. -Greg P.S. If you really must respond to this, please email me directly. No need to clutter the group with more witty banter or high drama. Greg Fortune Megaton Technologies megatontech@pacbell.net ------------------------------------------ "Those who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those who are doing it." --Boundary_(ID_DK/v9UVviBTmeeeLTnWvgA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT <html> At 08:30 PM 4/18/2002 -0600, Brett Glass wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Having a local build server is a nice idea, especially if you're<br> a large shop, but doesn't get newcomers a safe version to install<br> (important; if they're hacked they'll sour on FreeBSD) or give<br> an admin a build to which she can just upgrade quickly and know<br> that the latest holes are closed.<br><br> --Brett<br> </blockquote><br> Brett,<br><br> I've been watching this thread quietly, as I am a "newcomer" to FreeBSD. However your intimation that we'll run for the hills like children at the first sign of difficult offends me.<br><br> First, anyone connected to the net who ever thinks that their box is ever "safe" needs a reality check. Pretty good assumption for a newcomer, eh? I came to FreeBSD because of its security and groups like this. If my site gets hacked, I'm not going to "sour" on FreeBSD, I'm going to take advantage of this group and all the other wonderful resources available to this community and figure out what I need to learn to do better.<br><br> Just because we're new to FreeBSD doesn't mean we're sheep. We all know where the sheep graze. Nobody ever told me that FreeBSD was easy. Nobody ever told me it was secure "out of the box". What I heard was that if I was willing to learn how to do it, FreeBSD has the potential to be one of the most powerful and secure operating systems out there. I never thought that all the work was going to be done for me, or that the process would be easy of end. If technology was easy, sysadmins would get paid minimum wage and have to wear polyester uniforms and funny little hats.<br><br> Anyone who runs from an OS due to their own inability to learn how to properly configure/maintain it can go run Windows and contribute to Microsoft's ongoing track record for security and stability.<br><br> You sound like you know exactly what you want. Why not put it together? Hey, if you build it, it'll be done exactly the way you want it done, won't it? Don't let this opportunity pass you up! Here's your chance to have a piece of FreeBSD work perfectly for you! I'd code it, but my skills aren't up to snuff (yet) and I don't figure that any of these kind people should have to bear the burden of holding my hand. So I send my money to O'Reilly and I spend my time learning how to do new things. One of these days I will contribute to this body of work, but not until I've got the chops (I'd like to fix bugs, not introduce them ;-) ).<br><br> If you aren't careful, one of these days you'll be griping about the update mechanism I wrote, because I won't code it the way you want, I'll code it the way I want.<br><br> Life is wonderful when you just deal with what IS. I read this list to learn how to use the tools I currently have to do the best job I can, not to watch theory wars via email. If you don't like things the way they are, step up to the plate and do something about it. Otherwise, we all heard what you said, so please remain in the audience and take your seat.<br><br> Personally, my hat's off to the fine folks who post the security notices, analyze the bugs, write the code, debug the code, and maintain the source tree, all for a FREE OS! Without the people who actually do all the work that you're complaining about, you'd have to do all that work yourself (or "sour" on FreeBSD, as you put it). Try applying THAT across 1000 servers sometime.<br><br> -Greg<br><br> P.S. If you really must respond to this, please email me directly. No need to clutter the group with more witty banter or high drama.<br> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep> <b><i>Greg Fortune<br> </b>Megaton Technologies<br> megatontech@pacbell.net<br> ------------------------------------------<br> </i>"Those who say it can't be done should<br> get out of the way of those who are doing it."</html> --Boundary_(ID_DK/v9UVviBTmeeeLTnWvgA)-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message
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