From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 25 01:24:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF0DEF3 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cpghost@cordula.ws) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812F38FC12 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k10so2067856iea.13 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:23:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=5thv8wRoDp3h2fpho1XhlgV7z3qjHhJ2crJxAdB5cvE=; b=SQxbjv+lpqNFbjXRgOnRVH3DCbYdTKbBXhAAgzx/+F2xRvHFY4G7gP4dci8C+k0ug0 +JEmqAJpQpwTazvjYYyDAs/KvQVP9VJ9AFhKMaMLvTL6RiuRWpztIs4lc8Wx/Jl5hya1 dSFbDn2mhIsespbP6L4x2+Gc2SjzP8P0fcsICsNNzTjKjNOalzG9sio/Jrkqqip1F+TV vcURlQa3U5VQyM6ha1dK/u4IhuP8TSfLcMXlqJPytx/F5adEfNflK3a/oBySRcnoTCNK HB1hoHw7qTescFW+55KWrt7z9H61TtZcawHtn385LIJScDDfe7GvnXrpOGXtKqhJhW2T +oEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.57.130 with SMTP id i2mr2973393igq.56.1351128238853; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.49.67 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:23:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [93.221.183.64] In-Reply-To: <20121019135737.bf3ada15.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <201210191038.q9JAcmq7073341@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> <20121019135737.bf3ada15.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 03:23:58 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: laptop with no BIOS? or BIOS reflash pain From: "C. P. Ghost" To: Polytropon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkyWV6y4gJaVYhH63lKi2kYLjuPv4dXgXkvBq0lOzaFWlY6q3D+yroN7gaTkC7HXpF3WHEa Cc: mexas@bristol.ac.uk, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 01:24:00 -0000 On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:38:48 +0100 (BST), Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >> Anyway, I think I've heard there are some laptops >> with no BIOS, is this true? > > Per termini technici, yes. > > Some systems use EFI (or UEFI) instead of a BIOS. It's > comparable to a much more advanced (than BIOS) micro-OS > that initializes the hardware, connectes to the Internet, > tells the manufacturer what you're doing and keeps limiting > you in what you are allowed to install. :-) Heh... ;-) (U)EFI is nothing new for us old farts: we've had OpenBoot[1] on Sun hardware for ages, and even though it didn't limit us w.r.t. the OS you wanted to boot (that's why you can install FreeBSD/sparc64 on used Sun machines), it had its issues too. Mainly that it needed a counter-part in hardware peripherals. E.g.: without F-Code in ROM, a PCI-based frame buffer wouldn't be usable there, because it wouldn't reply to the OpenBoot queries. The point is that firmware CAN be a mini-OS and more powerful than PC-BIOS. There's nothing wrong with that, and the flexibility of OFW/OpenBoot was for us sysadmins invaluable, esp. with diskless machines. What's wrong, is UEFI's DRM-scheme used to prevent non-signed code to be loaded... without mandating in the specs that the BIOS vendor MUST allow the device owner to add his/her own keys to it. That's the evil part of it. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/