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Date:      Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Robert Watson <rwatson@FreeBSD.org>
To:        "Brian F. Feldman" <green@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        security@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: ports/mail/pine4 Makefile (fwd) 
Message-ID:  <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1000930172020.44697B-100000@fledge.watson.org>
In-Reply-To: <200009301842.e8UIgA543368@green.dyndns.org>

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On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Brian F. Feldman wrote:

> > : Another possibility might be to force pine into a 
> > : chroot... I guess the only good advice to give if you HAVE to run pine is to 
> > : run it inside a jail.
> > 
> > I don't think that would work.
> 
> That is, one can create their own jail (or just chroot(8)... I should 
y> probably get user-chrooting reviewed ;) which they would use for
running 
> potentially evil things -- like reading e-mail with pine.  It's not too 
> difficult, but it's really easier just to switch to a better MUA.

Neither chroot(8) nor jail(8) are intended to provide a light-weight
sandboxing service, and attempts to adapt them will no doubt run into
substantial problems, as typically developing security features requires a
whole-system view.  There have been numerous projects which have provided
various forms of light-weight sandboxing, but most of them involve more
work to develop and set up than fixing the application in the first place. 
If you're interested in various forms of integrity-based containment, you
might consider spending time working on our Biba MAC implementation, but
keep in mind mail programs lose a lot of their utility once you've managed
to effectively isolate them from the system (can no longer save
attachments, load files to email them out, keep your PGP keyring
accessible to your mailer, ...)

It's interesting--people constantly bash type-safe languages, but sadly,
the majority of the exploited bugs today would all be fixed by writing
your mail reader in Java, ML, Modula-3...

I support the current move to mark Pine4 as FORBIDDEN.  It retains support
for Pine in the base system as a port, while providing administrators a
safety warning before attempting to install it.  If the lack of a package
substantially worries people, what we should look at is a way that the
package mechanism can include security status information -- i.e., a
+ATTRIBUTES or the like file, which includes information on the FORBIDDEN
status.  Package management tools could inspect this and display a warning
as needed, allowing packages to inherit the security properties of their
respective ports.

  Robert N M Watson 

robert@fledge.watson.org              http://www.watson.org/~robert/
PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37  ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1
TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services




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