From nobody Mon May 1 21:09:18 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q9G7j1YVWz491q9 for ; Mon, 1 May 2023 21:10:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.pphosted.com", Issuer "Thawte RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q9G7j0QCwz3Ndq; Mon, 1 May 2023 21:10:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from pps.filterd (m0108159.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 341DF3t8030824; Mon, 1 May 2023 14:10:06 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : from : mime-version : content-type : content-id : date : message-id; s=PPS1017; bh=KBlqH1KWIj9XFDD7IoZGq8NPaUTc9zK5OR/FL0R1yl8=; b=qswq+OftjzbFfm48b4EMDy51HgmljpuYmI1nKbUB3QKyMGF3Wj8K97DjEnNi88UcLpmx zOVGvh8tsNAEo90zd9cpWj+g8cMRFk04VqXMw26tXJ/DUaNxrtX6q1qiX3jV4S+Gu/4s y4O0yPHvTJ2MAbNsEFFuFApitlCpmTp/4PgTP4IwztUR69BBiBMclVM6EQLSh+hZTAxD mg55L7pYTzjTxvO3+IxSDpOPayy9Pey+8XJGK5O7rw3KCjC97dzAtF//KLUuPa81xE9a ksJzH9ECj4CK/WlfYf+9k8yX5qRg2GSWUWUfLB+DzOIv+wDycpN42tO9HGUyP+yoYyAL Ug== Received: from mw2pr02cu001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-westus2azlp17012026.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.93.10.26]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3q916xubbn-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 01 May 2023 14:10:06 -0700 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kFSWgTssXFi4BmD6kS1Wn2AXgpMfjPIaEZeghX4gCfJO/uaPld6xzYR67k+Rb4cLe2YFyhm5EAB87JEN6boDSnCoHt7++5sYeE1kBADYFSiL1uAf/OtVS/1MUWxxB/DO7aC8WigUpFeabTtpDySAMuh29udfR49nNh12n1GNufWpkLA5CsW/ZyNNR9p3SAUtxheAcmK7mMg5j1kX8Xx29v3XBpVLUGbDDKTEFUcjB/B8Chd5pVEDDEHeF9p5cAs7HyhqOceQyIw6D/rLrzgfIcZrCvEQ9Rf77nETfaxO3HFngN+sUhhiG64w9Drg4Xg8/D38IXeEnIrOdeeFepkmhg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=KBlqH1KWIj9XFDD7IoZGq8NPaUTc9zK5OR/FL0R1yl8=; b=WLT9zlAW9hkUMeJvNgv4pHofNEq7ALO7Q7OPs1cp3/QD+Jyy0scbQj6azOZVaxT68GaTfPEYuOOYtYOov4b0chSBeoQMrHNYNhdXboKOfUaRMpv7cbZwAsRvsUYOu1oKsiFwV0WB3Ho8aova6rlFeCI1tfWqVCB+Z6fc6yCJ/qScdeD9IxJkrlD2u9GRmGjpy7qVm5eBK1S7b/EL27yazycXzZh+2zdhmo43nQJ6XEIZhyou95czdzvOOS78oAADmOd4BG5Oxn1keVvi5jx/z6njm+uhJ5IcRIaGQFvGp6aweDdQgjALp7SirafjLxh5Y4tBrQ0G7p1wMVEHE7Iclw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=softfail (sender ip is 66.129.239.15) smtp.rcpttodomain=freebsd.org smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=fail (p=reject sp=reject pct=100) action=oreject header.from=juniper.net; dkim=none (message not signed); arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=KBlqH1KWIj9XFDD7IoZGq8NPaUTc9zK5OR/FL0R1yl8=; b=U+TA2SBVpMdHBN1oeqebr3Dl6Ymdn0vZ8Jhp/JFepXm7JZ7p20MNKdHzjrDkLSkUgsIB7tTezGKSJz0BB0s3KB2TRkI3mQpMEesqFK0ofbcgqtKYlnJ3fADnf0ObPUTmaTYBfWq47N7YMOInXcvlyPj4Mlo44MtmEJwDe9kfZJY= Received: from DS7PR05CA0063.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:57::19) by BYAPR05MB6454.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:eb::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6340.30; Mon, 1 May 2023 21:10:01 +0000 Received: from DM6NAM12FT077.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:57:cafe::e4) by DS7PR05CA0063.outlook.office365.com (2603:10b6:8:57::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6363.19 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 1 May 2023 21:10:01 +0000 X-MS-Exchange-Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.15) smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=fail action=oreject header.from=juniper.net; Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.15 as permitted sender) Received: from p-exchfe-eqx-02.jnpr.net (66.129.239.15) by DM6NAM12FT077.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.13.178.125) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6363.19 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 1 May 2023 21:10:01 +0000 Received: from p-exchbe-eqx-01.jnpr.net (10.104.9.14) by p-exchfe-eqx-02.jnpr.net (10.104.9.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1118.7; Mon, 1 May 2023 16:09:59 -0500 Received: from p-exchbe-eqx-01.jnpr.net (10.104.9.14) by p-exchbe-eqx-01.jnpr.net (10.104.9.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1118.7; Mon, 1 May 2023 16:09:59 -0500 Received: from p-mailhub01.juniper.net (10.104.20.6) by p-exchbe-eqx-01.jnpr.net (10.104.9.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1118.7 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 1 May 2023 16:09:59 -0500 Received: from kaos.jnpr.net (kaos.jnpr.net [172.23.255.201]) by p-mailhub01.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id 341L9wCe011663; Mon, 1 May 2023 14:09:59 -0700 (envelope-from sjg@juniper.net) Received: by kaos.jnpr.net (Postfix, from userid 1377) id 33DBD88371; Mon, 1 May 2023 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kaos.jnpr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kaos.jnpr.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3293C88634; Mon, 1 May 2023 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Warner Losh CC: John Baldwin , freebsd-arch , Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) In-Reply-To: References: <82207.1682727452@kaos.jnpr.net> <5dcf4aae-258d-c0a0-91f6-ffa77177e716@FreeBSD.org> Comments: In-reply-to: Warner Losh message dated "Mon, 01 May 2023 12:02:53 -0600." From: "Simon J. Gerraty" X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 28.2 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <57756.1682975358.1@kaos.jnpr.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 14:09:18 -0700 Message-ID: <61859.1682975358@kaos.jnpr.net> X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM6NAM12FT077:EE_|BYAPR05MB6454:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 67a293a9-db85-4b32-4d8e-08db4a886d7a X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.15;CTRY:US;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:CAL;SFV:NSPM;H:p-exchfe-eqx-02.jnpr.net;PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230028)(4636009)(396003)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(346002)(451199021)(46966006)(40470700004)(36840700001)(336012)(86362001)(7696005)(5660300002)(186003)(40480700001)(54906003)(4744005)(316002)(82740400003)(6266002)(2906002)(47076005)(70206006)(356005)(81166007)(70586007)(4326008)(6916009)(41300700001)(36860700001)(7126003)(107886003)(26005)(9686003)(8936002)(8676002)(82310400005)(40460700003)(478600001)(55016003)(36900700001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2023 21:10:01.4859 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 67a293a9-db85-4b32-4d8e-08db4a886d7a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4;Ip=[66.129.239.15];Helo=[p-exchfe-eqx-02.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6NAM12FT077.eop-nam12.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB6454 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: eVSZZ4FqoccTyKbJ-r0G3tQD38e2xC4W X-Proofpoint-GUID: eVSZZ4FqoccTyKbJ-r0G3tQD38e2xC4W X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.254,Aquarius:18.0.942,Hydra:6.0.573,FMLib:17.11.170.22 definitions=2023-05-01_13,2023-04-27_01,2023-02-09_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=581 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2303200000 definitions=main-2305010170 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q9G7j0QCwz3Ndq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26211, ipnet:208.84.65.0/24, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Warner Losh wrote: > > Some of our daemons are very pointer heavy and up to a certain scale > > point, a 32bit app is more memory efficient, of course the 64bit version > > can scale much bigger but many customers do not need that. > > Are you able to build your daemons with cc -32 with an amd64 world, or > do you require an i386 world to build against? We don't buildworld, and we do not build 32bit apps as such in our freebsd tree. We build 32bit libs (and loader) and publish these for use by Junos. For main we are using -target i386-unknown-freebsd14.0, but clang is not built as part of freebsd. I think all we require is compat32 support in the kernel, and the ability to build libs for i386. > If the latter, do you use a chroot to build any ports We do not build any ports. Thanks --sjg