From nobody Mon Sep 22 23:41:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cW05G5Kjfz68cMr for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2025 23:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cW05G1Sklz3mPD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2025 23:42:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ultimatedns.net header.s=mx99 header.b=G2qojgFN; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bsd-lists@bsdforge.com designates 24.113.41.81 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 58MNfvcl006583; Mon, 22 Sep 2025 16:42:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ultimatedns.net; s=mx99; t=1758584523; x=1758585123; r=y; bh=g6h6KvDOwcRA2+ZeJ+cQw165dKK9qpEfKjEhs70lukI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=G2qojgFN5inuMDtdLEgQ7TWotimkqBDYU3PSM3OdP3PqeUVAc8FVAB5aIVu6hYS6D lFEYKIkNL0ZoF8hsTwIdYf4jqRzGML1Ewk5ZIJgsPnqR7taQh+FxJtGChtB+HiFi6Z wSgYe58EiZIZEUV1fNstTN2dGDP8YBQ143DT+HYk1y6oqCl2k53+bwSZda1KEYI4+T 3ougDYi7vwvs8JzygSSP29ew0F55GXCqG8kD7as4PuLNGznrRkPtm7CBpNL1nMIPCV RQB3AzG9oEnvA0qV0wk8ogK9tkpCZ7rcOwVS1XIZ2qkGy0msGZNSAE69EvNkiGaK7L nXyYc7ytu+EqA== List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2025 16:41:56 -0700 From: Chris To: Vadim Goncharov Cc: Anthony Pankov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: candidate of add. language in src (not rust) In-Reply-To: <20250920190033.70f97fad@nuclight.lan> References: <1911750646.20250916135953.ref@yahoo.com> <1911750646.20250916135953@yahoo.com> <20250920190033.70f97fad@nuclight.lan> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <08a53543791188a166ced937dcdb857f@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_d6c92dacb0d3d781293f2b5819abb034" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.20 / 15.00]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ultimatedns.net:s=mx99]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_UNKNOWN(0.10)[application/pgp-keys]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ultimatedns.net:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_ip X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cW05G1Sklz3mPD --=_d6c92dacb0d3d781293f2b5819abb034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm still catching up on the weekends email. So... On 2025-09-20 09:00, Vadim Goncharov wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 13:59:53 +0300 > Anthony Pankov wrote: > >> Just for note. >> >> XLibre developer(s) is trying to (automatically) convert X server sources >> to >> V language. >> >> (below opinion is not related to XLibre people) >> >> V language is a transpiler. May be it has a good ratio of cost of >> maintaining in the src codebase to increasing src audience/contributors. >> >> V is aimed to be a "simple language for building maintainable programs". >> This claim make it theoretically suitable for developing none performance >> critical programs in an operating system base. >> >> >> As for XLibre I think they would like to express (part of) a long lived and >> rarely touched C-codebase in a more maintainable and understandable way. >> Which allow them to touch a code with a more confidence when it is a >> necessarity for. > > While good compilation speed and small size is a plus, in my opinion, a new > language in base system must offer simplicity in writing scripts which offer > scripting languages. A quick look at V shows it has e.g. immutable strings > so > it is not very free from boilerplates. After Perl axed out, we have only > awkward /bin/sh as alternative which often lacks features, and going down > (to > low-level) is bad option, we need to go up. > > May be I'm missing something and V is more friendly and high-level? IHO everything should be written in assembler. But even then there needs to be some middleware. Maybe C? ;-) While I've only just started pllaying with it. V seems like a hybrid of C and Perl. Writing it feels much like writing Perl. Which I find a great deal simpler than outright C. Early days. But it seems to show promise. --Chris -- There is no such place as the internet --=_d6c92dacb0d3d781293f2b5819abb034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_d6c92dacb0d3d781293f2b5819abb034--