From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 16 22:01:19 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A654133E7C7 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic314-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic314-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.132.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0F656B556 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:01:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: YaqtRfIVM1kSvZGF._._nBIUecSNXXrYafHE3jryRzDK8bNW3HVaH0.gDTEXNhh qVZkTNz1l24hqdgzE89f1ktPL2a2KXYd2Jd73cq.piu7YDsoZBE11RSZYk8yPLKoOwyFlTyVDpYc 0sNrYmvwbKp1xWJ_48ukn8FsQIWy.ia6Fn16OUo0Mz5FNwzlq3EWNZzZep1JQLveorYxbdDooQFn RsOwbVY4xMkulXe5fcXsm7ilXu6ATouOZRAAjszSSbK1lmtwR_I9UuM22voUdwbhMXgMWGzMXasZ IFzOh.13EIYX6ap8sMVVBQ_h_MRDKnVV5rlJxAu.YSFDRHnO0sDG1kGUOV9CIomTOQ6c79Di0m_a 6UryjmUdILy4R4KYhT6wRyUh9KFgegNmnGYhrXHoHmBVRIJzTPqKJsmui_ldXP8TMA2yqLRMGzJ5 Swhw5ZuShHmzss2nYywhL8dHgCHijWGuLc5zJ.4eR.FshFTP0vU1SpH9q6LnelKDrHiIHFtBWC6I Hs468QPbxsYtAd9EPmmMXj05BYjuf_VZIWRPa68emPwc0sGapHIh1UyC1lgtX4.d3YG5vnAkiD5J DppoMbeBa9.PAW_2G1DcXVFdJ4Ah17oKOrlMh4FJIzJCilh4ONuG_czRpydtHQUVfz0IeWwFBZcq 7YXB9zQJXwjxBTIrObGCEcsTTLi6BdlRGxdwTr.dcdovRB5CQS1GztRo4PEY8qVOso6DDCYtflMU GHIrY1c.2EDIlTZn8v9DBQzO4CpQKnCSmgfuV4HJXIzAWQTzurSLdh4LWIsaUQ8A10gSKio4BtA9 EscXjl.LdOdIXDDiAGJ4EacQImvES6ly4BSCu8QQCbtn8dqfbl2LlJjJ7reIhr.2ro.ucmU7r7rY 3S2xJPFVPNzj05JZsEMjCyurgiNuQYHUO7Q5aYAw9V6wTpXHXvl3zmN5g7i2DOuth69HiPhOHsKu UedHos30gObjo58W72UiVluAIwjUTFJJkXby5_3IOFAD.VIDf7m2urUjdF_i8oGRmmEj3kW.jpAC CbROKU9TIUdKVYQ3hRoJ7TqB2rVX1HIJkxDxYUtnWZMIbQ4QfNCz3W8NK Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:01:12 +0000 Received: from c-67-170-167-181.hsd1.or.comcast.net (EHLO [192.168.1.109]) ([67.170.167.181]) by smtp403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d2ca7a7e0bed290ab9eda4387939fd47 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:01:10 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: A proposal for code removal prior to FreeBSD 13 Message-Id: <4876C5E3-3169-41EC-9A79-7613F92A9C6D@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:01:08 -0800 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A0F656B556 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.04 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:26101, ipnet:74.6.128.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.888,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.979,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(1.68)[ip: (5.44), ipnet: 74.6.128.0/21(1.70), asn: 26101(1.36), country: US(-0.08)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.998,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[124.132.6.74.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[124.132.6.74.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:01:19 -0000 Warner Losh imp at bsdimp.com wrote on Sun Dec 16 16:32:35 UTC 2018 : > On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM George Neville-Neil > wrote: >=20 > > Howdy, > > > > A few of us are working on a list of programs and other code that = we'd > > like to remove before FreeBSD 13. If others with to collaborate on = this > > removal, or discuss it, please do so here. > > > > The list is being maintained on the project WIki: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/WhatsGoing/FreeBSD13 >=20 >=20 > I'm in the process of writing some of the criteria I've been using to = drive > discussions. I've promised a formal policy for a long time, but that's > turning out to be harder than I thought to write and have just = documented > the criteria I look at to do the cost / benefit analysis for things. = It's > skewed a bit towards old drivers and old architectures (or platforms = within > those architectures), but it's likely a useful snowman to work towards > something better. https://wiki.freebsd.org/ObsoleteCriteria >=20 > . . . Given discussions such as the one for -r341682 ( one message being = https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-head/2018-December/120994.html= ), is a requirement for 64-bit atomics in order to support SMP going to potentially eliminate platforms like the multi-processor 32-bit powerpc support (some old PowerMac models are examples)? Should it be an example in WhatsGoing and a new ProjectPolicy? (While I sometimes have access to a couple of such old PowerMacs and experiment with FreeBSD on them, there is no reason FreeBSD should consider that in any way. I'm just referencing an existing example context.) Separately: Is there a fairly complete list of the Project Policies someplace? Each possibly with the matching MD requirements implications (when there are some)? =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)