From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 12 14:52:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA021065678; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:52:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: from blah.sun-fish.com (blah.sun-fish.com [217.18.249.150]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1568FC18; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:52:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan.lambrev@moneybookers.com) Received: by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix, from userid 1002) id A45231B10EFD; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:52:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on malcho.cmotd.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 Received: from hater.haters.org (hater.cmotd.com [192.168.3.125]) by blah.sun-fish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FF71B10EE0; Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:52:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <48A1A391.9090808@moneybookers.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:52:01 +0300 From: Stefan Lambrev User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080616) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Penisoara References: <78086795e6ab9676870368dcebb57b37.squirrel@secure.futurecis.com> <78cb3d3f0808120503t3e2c7d68n1d4383c98aa41e10@mail.gmail.com> <48A183D0.6070901@moneybookers.com> <78cb3d3f0808120722t461bfb56x4782899811cf63f0@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <78cb3d3f0808120722t461bfb56x4782899811cf63f0@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/8018/Tue Aug 12 10:36:31 2008 on blah.cmotd.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-rc@freebsd.org, wbentley@futurecis.com Subject: Re: Idea for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:52:11 -0000 Adrian Penisoara wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Stefan Lambrev > wrote: > >>>> First let me reiterate a few things. I started in FreeBSD and it will >>>> always be my first love. Second, keep in mind that Solaris is a >>>> commercial >>>> product and must be viewed as such. >>>> >>>> >>> Good point. Like it happened in the Linux world, we should also have >>> some commercially backed versions of [Free]BSD in order to get better >>> visibility and business support (which, in the end, counts a lot). >>> That's why I've been thinking for some time about starting up the >>> EnterpriseBSD project (see http://launchpad.net/enterprisebsd). I >>> believe PC-BSD is a good start for the desktop. >>> >>> >> There is commercial support for FreeBSD out there. >> Actually the problem is that misinformed people are still spreading the lie >> that there is not... >> > > OK, I will reword that a bit: I believe having also a "business" face > for the business market will help a lot in increasing visibility. > > >> Also the example with Linux is very bad, where you have a "stable" version >> only in enterprise RH or SuSe >> and the vanilla kernel is only for development and beta testing .. I do not >> want to see this happens to FreeBSD >> > > I'm not sure where is that remark headed to. And I don't think > (re)packaging a business-centric version would harm -- please correct > me if I'm wrong. > The problem with "enterprise" is that they ship their own kernel which is heavily modified. If you want enterprise go for OSX :) I think it's the best enterprise BSDish system ;) Also there are more packages for FreeBSD available then for RH, and I can assure you that all programs that you actually use (like ssh, apache, perl and etc) you have to manually compile to fit your needs. > >>> While we're at it, I wish we could leverage the posibility for the >>> admin to manually start the service at the CLI, no matter whether the >>> service has been enabled or not -- that is the "_enable" keyword >>> should have effect only in the bootup/automatic contexts. >>> >>> >> Like keywords - forcestart forcerestart forcestop ?!?! >> > > Yes, I am always reminded of that :). > Well, to tell you the truth, I do not know of any other OS which > requires prefixing with "force" the start/stop actions in order to act > on the service at the command line, and personally I wish it weren't > the case. > Well I bet you can find this in most linux distros that copy FreeBSD. What about gentoo? Anyway I think that the beauty of the current rc/ng system in freebsd is that it's very easy to understand and use it. Not like those nasty XML config files that makes you blind. There are small fixes that can be applied to make the system even better, but rewriting it just for the sport looks like wasting too much power :) But after all FreeBSD innovate do not imitate ;) Anyway it's may be just me, but I do not think that the rc system in freebsd is the showstopper, that needs funding or more ppl looking at it. And btw burdening the rc subsystem to monitor your daemons is overkill too. It will never work as good as real monitoring software, and will only bloat things. There are tons of utilities that can do this. -cut- -- Best Wishes, Stefan Lambrev ICQ# 24134177