From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 21 12:04:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5856C1065742 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:04:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287988FC1B for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:04:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (root@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua [10.1.1.148]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p3LBoEWp083407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:50:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p3LBoEC1005568; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:50:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p3LBo2TY005567; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:50:02 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:50:02 +0300 From: Kostik Belousov To: Matthew Jacob Message-ID: <20110421115002.GL48734@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <4DAEAE1B.70207@FreeBSD.org> <20110420203754.GM85668@acme.spoerlein.net> <4DAF46F8.9040004@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="s7VmGO2m7mcnuX8Q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: FreeBSD-Current Subject: Re: Switch from legacy ata(4) to CAM-based ATA X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:04:23 -0000 --s7VmGO2m7mcnuX8Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 04:35:58PM -0700, Matthew Jacob wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wed, 20 Apr 2011, Scott Long wrote: > >... > > > >I agree with what Alexander is saying, but I'd like to take it a step=20 > >further. We should all be using either mount-by-label, or be working to= =20 > >introduce generic device names to GEOM. Right now, device names are an= =20 > >implementation detail that have no functional use other than to=20 > >complicate the fstab. Disks exposed through the block layer are simply= =20 > >direct-access block-array devices, nothing more. There's no functional= =20 > >difference to the kernel or userland between ad, ar, da, aacd, mfid,=20 > >amrd, etc when it comes to reading and writing sectors off of them.=20 > >But yet we give them unique names and pretend that those names mean=20 > >something. We could give them all the name of "disk" and the system=20 > >would still function exactly that same. The name attributes are=20 > >interesting when it comes to doing out-of-band management, but it's also= =20 > >trivial to create a human-readable map and a programatic API between the= =20 > >generic name and the attribute name. Same goes for volumes labels, and= =20 > >I'd almost argue that they're more powerful than generic device names. > > > >In other words, "ada" isn't the problem here, it's that we all still=20 > >think in terms of the 1980's when systems didn't autoconfigure and=20 > >device names were important hints to system functionality. That time=20 > >has thankfully passed, and it's time for us to catch up. > > >=20 > Still, keep in mind that conservative leanings have to be appeased. Back= =20 > in SparcStation1 development (1989) we kept on calling the root device=20 > "Fred" as in "Let's boot fred now". >=20 > That said, you would not *believe* the flack I took for having the root= =20 > filesystem on sd3 instead of sd0 in SS1, even though there was no reason= =20 > it couldn't have just been called "fred". It was YOU ?! Could you, please, share a story ? I am very interested. Thanks in advance. --s7VmGO2m7mcnuX8Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2wGekACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4j5vQCgsOXooO0+Fm28/gD1+gJA2vbg DDsAoPYKIBxAdapHcOPdUL7bH/QmcVfj =e+JM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --s7VmGO2m7mcnuX8Q--