From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 9 13:44:57 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E9C106566C for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@koitsu.dyndns.org) Received: from qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.48]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7BF8FC12 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fpYZ1d0011smiN4A5pkyU7; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:44:58 +0000 Received: from koitsu.dyndns.org ([98.248.46.159]) by omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fpkx1d0063S48mS8gpkxc4; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:44:57 +0000 Received: by icarus.home.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3D5CC1E3033; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:44:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:44:56 -0800 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20100209134456.GA37029@icarus.home.lan> References: <4B6F9A8D.4050907@langille.org> <4B70FEEC.6070007@modulus.org> <20100209063310.GA23387@icarus.home.lan> <4B715AC6.5090500@denninger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B715AC6.5090500@denninger.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: Re: hardware for home use large storage X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:44:58 -0000 On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 06:53:26AM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 05:21:32PM +1100, Andrew Snow wrote: > > > >> http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/ATOM/ICH9/X7SPA.cfm?typ=H > >> > >> Supermicro just released a new Mini-ITX fanless Atom server board > >> with 6xSATA ports (based on Intel ICH9) and a PCIe 16x slot. It > >> takes up to 4GB of RAM, and there's even a version with KVM-over-LAN > >> for headless operation and remote management. > >> > > > > Neat hardware. But with regards to the KVM-over-LAN stuff: it's IPMI, > > and Supermicro has a very, *very* long history of having shoddy IPMI > > support. I've been told the latter by too many different individuals in > > the industry (some co-workers, some work at Yahoo, some at Rackable, > > etc.) for me to rely on it. If you *have* to go this route, make sure > > you get the IPMI module which has its own dedicated LAN port on the > > module and ***does not*** piggyback on top of an existing LAN port on > > the mainboard. > > > What's wrong with the Supermicro IPMI implementations? I have several - > all have a SEPARATE LAN port on the main board for the IPMI KVM > (separate and distinct from the board's primary LAN ports), and I've not > had any trouble with any of them. http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/current/2008-01/msg01206.html http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=7750 http://www.beowulf.org/archive/2007-November/019925.html http://bivald.com/lessons-learned/2009/06/supermicro_ipmi_problems_web_i.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2008-August/044248.html http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2008-August/044237.html (Last thread piece does mention that the user was able to get keyboard working by disabling umass(4) of all things) It gets worse when you use one of the IPMI modules that piggybacks on an existing Ethernet port -- the NIC driver for the OS, from the ground up, has to be fully aware of ASF and any quirks/oddities involved. For example, on bge(4) and bce(4), you'll find this (bge mentioned below): hw.bge.allow_asf Allow the ASF feature for cooperating with IPMI. Can cause sys- tem lockup problems on a small number of systems. Disabled by default. So unless the administrator intentionally sets the loader tunable prior to booting the OS installation, they'll find all kinds of MAC problems as a result of the IPMI piggybacking. "Why isn't this enabled by default?" I believe because there were reports of failures/problems on people's systems who *did not* have IPMI cards. Lose-lose situation. If you really want me to dig up people at Yahoo who have dealt with IPMI on thousands of Supermicro servers and the insanity involved (due to bugs, quirks, or implementation differences between the IPMI firmwares and which revision/model of module used), I can do so. Most of the complaints I've heard of stem from serial-over-IPMI. I don't think it'd be a very positive/"supportive" thread, however. :-) One similar product that does seem to work well is iLO, available on HP/Compaq hardware. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc@parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB |