From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 6 14:41:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 838676CA for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 14:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ig0-f181.google.com (mail-ig0-f181.google.com [209.85.213.181]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44CA91E67 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 14:41:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ig0-f181.google.com with SMTP id h15so767116igd.2 for ; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 07:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=XAV/ZpANo1e4KWDQdnuIN9jX06U+yT+ZPjW0L1BTCsk=; b=U6MJkFN/v2hPG7XyVYy8OlpdOeo+54LuvkJHuW0GipIhmPFpczdwdNFGRI0XXaCoMT o0AP3MtOioaK7oz9xHLWr9NWjR3MjlfwsaL3JYadJ5AjC1Gtv6GtXXpulwKBZKrJyR4h 7CnmEHAqk1bMN/RRITqWRV0vYr0zetRdyHvLLpPx+nWKX0ePbd2ErR/Q6a/1OJPtua6C /nHYT0a2F+jUhKwvFU6e/DQjs3I8ehbaL954ETHLFo4fMJXD67dAsUyVmfwrXJk9dLdW biDchgcYcae+DWw6dvcW+CdhH/niSrVuXPMzpa/X6+RhQe5n2fCQDwZDOFo2IVcrWrl/ r7Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnv+PyFAXOtuKdiAaqQ1MnS5R42Cq2vB0DFcGJvChx4K28Kw7ASyDUeomtq3t2zXgYeEf6j X-Received: by 10.42.114.130 with SMTP id g2mr21612065icq.46.1410014487997; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 07:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsdimp.bsdimp.com (50-78-194-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.78.194.198]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z2sm6233887igl.16.2014.09.06.07.41.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Sep 2014 07:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F19F6F4A-91D2-445C-A458-066C5594ECA2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Building clang in buildworld as part of the bootstrap process -- is it really necessary? From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4AF47B56-109E-46A3-8EC4-75B95E063FCF@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 08:41:23 -0600 Message-Id: <95AE2942-2EB8-4431-8B87-2304610DB262@bsdimp.com> References: <01C283B7-C9AF-4AE8-A192-FBC7C04D207E@bsdimp.com> <215CB3BB-BA4B-41D9-9CBF-FC0FDEE9492C@gmail.com> <4AF47B56-109E-46A3-8EC4-75B95E063FCF@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: "freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org" , "conrad.meyer@emc.com" , Garrett Cooper X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:41:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F19F6F4A-91D2-445C-A458-066C5594ECA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:28 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 6 Sep 2014, at 06:47, Garrett Cooper wrote: >=20 >> Makes sense. I'll do some poking around and see if things could = potentially be optimized with the clang build. On beefy machines it's = not a big deal, but as we know on machines without a ton of memory or = SSDs, it can become painful, as expected. >=20 > The build system for clang-in-base has improved a bit so, as you say, = it is now reasonably fast on beefy machines (release clang build with = the upstream build system takes 2-3 minutes on a fast machine, about 10 = on my laptop, the one in buildworld isn't quite as good at extracting = parallelism). On slow machines, it can be quite painful. Yes. Hence the ask for a faster way to rebuild the system. > The correct solution to this problem is likely to be to start creating = bootstrap-toolchain packages. This is also likely to be necessary for = architectures like MIPS and PowerPC before 11 anyway, because the host = compiler doesn't have the C++11 support required for bootstrapping a = newer LLVM and clang. We can work around that quite easily if we have = package for the bootstrap toolchain (possibly cross-compiled from an x86 = machine). I=92m not sure which problem this solves. If you are cross building, then you already are likely running on amd64 = which has a good compiler. If you are doing a native build, then = everybody but mips and armeb already have clang support in the base. For = those what you do with clang is irrelevant, so long as gcc is around. When gcc is kicked out of the base, we=92ll need to have an external = toolchain story for those platforms anyway. That story might include = generation of binary packages, but it will also need to include building = of those packages easily. Likely without buildworld, or a modified = variant that groks how to bootstrap a sysroot. Cross building for ports is getting close, we may be able to use it to = generate packages for nonx86 faster than native (recent successful full = builds are taking only 5x as long). I guess I=92m saying that while packages may be necessary, they aren=92t = sufficient unless they are easily reproduced. All this also needs to be well documented, or we=92re going to go off = the rails trying to support it. Warner --Apple-Mail=_F19F6F4A-91D2-445C-A458-066C5594ECA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUCx0TAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEAcPUP/0egJ1JBuCvxj95YlIalVnSk gvI/LXGyyFxIIaOpG52vyVZV8jMDaPrivYO0riff6vFM0lqmMhKuQvvKLEczNy6T w+riZ4cIBcDV7irS2plq5JNgoekKA3W/9r3VVEQhhcEc/yNdzFIJvPZcvRjA+h40 tUeY+X0tM0019x1FZbqqfYWx0VGKn9cpMdzxmvQX0iogAsTlO+LzCRNxZjqf61Ky l3/Bn9uMVQ1zg+B6h0bC/hJ/E7WG7AtLlO0tebhx+BG1P8tersvRkdFP4/Tc9GGY 1aiOSrxcczxR3ahxrNo2V0FtqlvpKJDi3VJG9nmFA/IWqbls3sEkVhmeVC8GIx10 kw60VjjZg5ng8SdZShKlte9x1Q0CU8PjCMkJFIaj2No1O1GEhwNE6aYud91asNPb RlOurfR/nPB4naht9QZ5FbOR+e8z1Ulpqc5uQo2LqXwxzIoZyM+naNSie6kmjNqt xv7GhOdV6K70Aqd6azi7qsrZMK8Fy22MJuF2d+FDwf5oQi+uIzJKZlHff5NPlWTX OyUAbL1qFOw8FPh67Ps8tQXJNVHRVWlTyyCsnV62tZKnubFxK+RBnGp/uV4T6dt2 RTZGXSQDY99ht8kCfvqT/vinSyai2Yq2yhl/zLXy0KNDzG5SIuIaQLGxU4Z1DI6b KUiNlA/3B9gP3jech1YE =bwVQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F19F6F4A-91D2-445C-A458-066C5594ECA2--