From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 28 22:22:37 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C86BB64; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 22:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-03-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 276F5D01; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 22:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c-24-8-230-52.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.230.52] helo=damnhippie.dyndns.org) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WTfAZ-000OuH-Gg; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 22:22:35 +0000 Received: from [172.22.42.240] (revolution.hippie.lan [172.22.42.240]) by damnhippie.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s2SMMX0T080477; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 16:22:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@FreeBSD.org) X-Mail-Handler: Dyn Standard SMTP by Dyn X-Originating-IP: 24.8.230.52 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/sendlabs/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX1+/u6OVke+g3eZjHhm9abeI Subject: Re: HEADS UP: merged llvm/clang 3.4 From: Ian Lepore To: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: <69411D70-0866-4AA4-9EB5-4C0FC8D89FD0@FreeBSD.org> References: <20140328165121.13797.qmail@mailgate.gta.com> <6F2AEDEC-4173-45B0-9C21-1D80E33660F6@FreeBSD.org> <1396029772.81853.150.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <5335E715.3090603@FreeBSD.org> <1396043733.81853.164.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> <69411D70-0866-4AA4-9EB5-4C0FC8D89FD0@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 16:22:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1396045353.81853.167.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Craig Rodrigues , FreeBSD stable , Jung-uk Kim X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 22:22:37 -0000 On Fri, 2014-03-28 at 23:19 +0100, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 28 Mar 2014, at 22:55, Ian Lepore wrote: > > On Fri, 2014-03-28 at 22:35 +0100, Dimitry Andric wrote: > ... > >> I'm now testing something similar, which also tests the FreeBSD version, > >> so it can be applied to head and then MFC'd. I will commit it soon. > >> > >> -Dimitry > >> > > > > Why test the version? The tools on head can't handle dwarf4 any better > > than the tools on the stable branches. I don't understand the sudden > > change in mindset that after 20 years of freebsd providing a completely > > usable development environment in base, now all of a sudden it's okay to > > not do that anymore. > > The change in mindset is simply to modernize, e.g. move away from > ancient tools and formats. Otherwise we will be stuck in the pre-GPLv3 > era forever. > > Also, "The tools" is really only our ancient version of gdb, and that > should be removed from base as soon as lldb is usable. The rest of base > (really only the CTF tools) can handle dwarf4, now a more recent version > of libdwarf is available. > > > > It seems fine to me to say "If you want better tools, use the latest > > ports" but not fine to say "If you want any tools at all, use the latest > > ports (oh and by the way, good luck with cross-building if you're not an > > amd64 person)." > > Strange, I thought the general opinion was to actually remove as much > stuff from base as possible. With the toolchain being the most logical > one to move out? But maybe I didn't get the memo... :-) > Well, there is certainly a growing religion organizing around that dogma. I am not an adherent to such thinking. I have nothing against supporting an external toolchain, and I'm dead set against requiring it. -- Ian