From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 18 20:45:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC44B434; Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748D88FC1B; Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pakbsde14.localnet (unknown [38.105.238.108]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C7C42B9B2; Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:45:10 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: svn commit: r244112 - head/sys/kern Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:37:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p22; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201212110708.qBB78EWx025288@svn.freebsd.org> <201212171439.27297.jhb@freebsd.org> <50CF8CE7.4020906@mu.org> In-Reply-To: <50CF8CE7.4020906@mu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201212181537.23341.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:45:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:09:37 +0000 Cc: Adrian Chadd , src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Alfred Perlstein , Andriy Gapon , Gleb Smirnoff , Robert Watson , Navdeep Parhar , Bruce Evans , svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 20:45:11 -0000 On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:21:43 pm Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On 12/17/12 11:39 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Saturday, December 15, 2012 1:04:17 am Bruce Evans wrote: > >> On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> > >>> On 12/14/12 4:12 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, John Baldwin wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:02:15 am Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 04:53:48PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: A> The > >>>>>> problem again is that not all the KASSERTS are inviolable, if you A> want > >>>>>> to do a project to split them, then please do, it would really be A> > >>>>>> helpful, as for now, they are a mis-mash of death/warnings and there are > >>>>>> A> at least three vendors who approve of this as well as 3 long term A> > >>>>>> committers that approved my change (not including Adrian). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Can you show examples of not inviolable KASSERTs? > >>>>> There are none. They are all assertions for a reason. However, in my > >> Not even one whose existence is a bug? :-) > > They should just not exist at all then. :) All the more reason for them to > > panic early and often so developers will be prompted to remove them. > > > This is hard to explain to a customer. > > customer: "So we ran your debug image and got you a panic, here is the > information. So can you tell us what is the problem?" > alfred: "well that is due to XXX other thing that is broken, thanks for > helping us resolve that unrelated problem!" > customer: "i hate you" > alfred: "get in line." Are your customers running HEAD? Assertions in a stable branch have been through testing and generally aren't bogus, so dying on incorrect assertions (meaning the assertion tripped for non-buggy code) should not be the common case. Thus, that shouldn't really be the basis for an argument on this. I can also come up with arbitrary strawmen: customer: "help! we lost a bunch of data!" jhb: "oh, well, I can see why: the box reported this critical error while your data was still there, but it went ahead and corrupted it all anyway even though it knew about the error because I thought you wanted longer uptimes" jhb: "don't worry, I have a patch to fix the error" customer: "don't bother, we are switching to X" -- John Baldwin