From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 18 10:02:08 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 399436F4 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:02:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bede.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACED5E19 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:02:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t1IA235b067726; Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:02:04 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <54E4631B.2040500@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:02:03 +0000 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kpneal@pobox.com, Ralf Mardorf Subject: Re: What's in my hard drive? How can I get rid of it? References: <54E39F83.70002@gmail.com> <20150217202411.GA42894@neutralgood.org> <20150217222744.0a9b1d87@archlinux> <54E3BF90.9060609@gmail.com> <20150218000401.2ec1bf7a@archlinux> <54E3D7A5.9000304@radel.com> <20150218011556.4b3e6096@archlinux> <20150218030315.GC49517@neutralgood.org> In-Reply-To: <20150218030315.GC49517@neutralgood.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:02:08 -0000 On 18/02/2015 03:03, kpneal@pobox.com wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 01:15:56AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:07:01 -0500, Jon Radel wrote: >>> On 2/17/15 6:04 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:24:16 -0700, jd1008 wrote: >>>>> A people's tribunal of highly capable software and hardware >>>>> engineers is desperately needed to look into the source codes of >>>>> all SW and HW designs and implementations - including the compilers >>>>> and assemblers. >>>> We are still free to write Assembler opcode using an hex editor, that >>>> way nothing could go wrong. When I started, I didn't write opcode >>>> using an hex editor, but I used an Assmbler editor that didn't >>>> provide macros, this editor was close to an hex editor. There was no >>>> way to correct something by inserting code. >>>> >>> And you expect the microcode to only implement the documented >>> instruction set with no extra goodies? Trusting sort you are. >> >> :D >> >> Then we indeed need to reed every single line that is in the >> RAMs/ROMs/etc.. Hahaha, I still remember how much days I needed to get >> through a 2 KiB listing of Assembler on listing paper. I suspect it's >> impossible to check 20 MiBs and more of software that way. > > You guys should hang out on the Cypherpunks lists. Those guys talk about > doing things like tearing down chips to analyze the circuitry. And then > someone will point out that variations in doping may cause issues that you > won't find with a simple chip teardown. And so on and so on. Like this paper (titled Stealthy Dopant-Level Hardware Trojans) http://sharps.org/wp-content/uploads/BECKER-CHES.pdf A quick search for "hardware trojan" turns up enough material to fuel nightmares for the paranoid. > *shakes head* > > And normal folk wonder why I don't trust computers. > That's perfectly normal for sysadmins. :-) -- Those who do not learn from computing history are doomed to GOTO 1