From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 00:35:29 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463FE151FC6B; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:35:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35F666A8C3; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 00:35:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dbkirk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id i12so24041308wrw.0; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:35:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gRPIWARLHEkpSTWZUHwEK43Sh+uc9iqWgmO+pEAcyFA=; b=GdP4VMfCYoKAMROaslaueXywPAgG6U7VnX8jMzSJX1SegJ0eiuIrsBPH7PcW7zWJkh 3EbqZ7RgtPLGF4m2rFHHWKHKsUq9G+qnAc76vVu13+Xxw1NMxOYBTUJc/PTI7RQEZjxs kuSIe+KhodHqAKUo2gDZeYgz8ynFdUPGE5fEOdVE3zDNjdfzCMujMg8nizjQEFTOu7xr L1/blR8w/Zn78lLLRNIk5bu5huu8TuRfLqGDp6V/SGt/H8eTd1HpqKq11UheX6s7vIJW KW+mJzG2RKiooQIZzvxiNt39WErsEti8Bokv20PW94Wh9Akd/h9fXwS8MUToQ9jls1FN pOUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gRPIWARLHEkpSTWZUHwEK43Sh+uc9iqWgmO+pEAcyFA=; b=JmnIxJz7lS1YxhjhABh72us8hPRizMOEl7y0FiRwRi1pQGJQ0hzSRJEZ7FmqUE7lqZ hMoIpza39PkJ5vuNb0zsmhf+NRnHnPmoZ6xuzr/3UGNEarFydRCXfnm+7cimd6h5NLXF qJM4ShaYQ0esR/CU03pPYDQJOalr3j6tD6k0cw36XxKbEVkCXMuWIIjQ6XvPR/RrQ0pj HKKwI7fzJKcGneahw9yrQdbaDGj+Uz/6mPwGtQMpLQX+yOQmvCg6ca+z51K1Q0YqoXUk kD+WGRL/DHBoCPGH8mgoxE6KeELgEheGGVl458L7+et9yaTv0gan/CNioHQf9EQPG7T6 vv+w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXj0BNy3HTuDPQ7WfIWFPtRI8uHXzfdGOgODuCT6zowNPMS6ri4 k4xI/PekaO7fOaSvPOcy8ZYRU4OL9QrR/GN2+a0LmQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxm+UpCYKAkeMXY8a/IwYSVi0eWs5jsESgqm8oPUWUoBxGOS5OaqTDgU8l7dUngFiJFR3s+baWzm1abjPqgJJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6252:: with SMTP id m18mr1279814wrv.199.1551400526612; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:35:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Doug Kirk Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:35:14 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 35F666A8C3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GdP4VMfC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dbkirk@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::436 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dbkirk@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.79 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.62), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.28), asn: 15169(-2.03), country: US(-0.07)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:35:29 -0000 I'm not FreeBSD developer, I don't want you thinking I am and blame them. But you've beat this horse dead already. No reason to rehash it again. I also value a high S/N ratio, as otherwise it's just wasting my time. On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 5:07 PM Steve Kargl wrote: > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > > > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > > > > > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It > > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and > > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). > > I have a amd64 system with > > CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU) > Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x600f20 Family=0x15 Model=0x2 Stepping=0 > > Guess what? Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video > card (drmn0: ) I have is sort of not supported > by drm-current-kmod. When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched > /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a > mfence memory barrier. I was advised by the graphics team to use > drm-legacy-kmod. > > Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will > be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list. > At which point, I can rinse and repeat. > > > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: > > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , > and > > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. > > > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that > > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when > > you bought it? > > You have completely missed the point. I didn't buy the laptop > in the last 2 or 3 years. It is several years old. The system > was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed > (which surprise effects i386 systems). > > It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387 > FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision. Yep, > I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work. Given the > condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very > few people do any numerical research with freebsd. > > > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by > > setting up straw-man arguments. > > I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can > be considered whining. When I commit a patch to the gcc tree, > if it affects others, I work to fix the problem. I don't shoot > the messenger. At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared > about the quality of their work. > > -- > Steve >