Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:35:25 -0500 From: "Matt Emmerton" <matt@gsicomp.on.ca> To: "Munden, Randall J" <Randall.Munden@umb.com>, "Maxim Hermion" <muxhermion@fastmail.fm> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? Message-ID: <001f01c3d3c3$11ad2830$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> References: <79B4EAB03B5E4649A740A8C1452F60643523EE@y6001a.umb.corp.umb.com>
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Maybe we should all start using and developing for Dillon's DragonFlyBSD -- it's already got a whole bunch of new features on the 4-x base that will soon rival the functionality of 5-CURRENT, without the mess. All this with a handful of active developers and no bikeshedding. -- Matt Emmerton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Munden, Randall J" <Randall.Munden@umb.com> To: "Maxim Hermion" <muxhermion@fastmail.fm>; <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Cc: <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: RE: Where is FreeBSD going? > This makes me wonder if it isn't time for a new -core. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maxim Hermion [mailto:muxhermion@fastmail.fm] > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:30 PM > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Where is FreeBSD going? > > > I've been an avid follower of the developments in FreeBSD for around 5 > years now, so my overview of the entire history of "glue that binds" > FreeBSD together isn't complete. That said, I've come to be a bit > disappointed at how events in the last 18 months or so seem to be > pushing the project in a direction that has made things more difficult, > instead of > more successful, that has shown distain for experience and quality and > made FreeBSD a platform for large ego's to push their personal projects > down > everyone's throat. > > The statistics sample from 2001 over a year was a cheap attempt to > minimize Matt's contribution to the project. The reason why he has been > mostly silent is probably one of the most prominent signs of his > superior maturity. The fact that the official defense (mostly fronted by > Greg, > atm) > he wasn't such a substantial committer is crap, for the most part. If > one wanted to go by the stats, Jeff Robertson (sorry if I munged the > spelling) > would be one of the key committers, and his UMA system isn't even > entirely > ripe yet, it's just been committed within the sample timeframe. That > suddenly phk is at the top of the list, is simple a result of his newest > attempt to add another large chunk of bit rot to the project that he can > later claim not to have time to maintain "unless someone is willing to > pay for my time" (like the atm bits, the half-finished devd monster, > et.al.) One can hardly get him to look at his malloc bits, that put his > name in lights at some point in the long past. > > Matt didn't contribute because he was convinced that that the smp > development direction that was chosen (my impression at least from the > archives and my fading memory) was overly complex, too complex for the > number and talent level of the contributers involved, and that it would > delay a release from the -current branch significantly. So he was right. > I'll almost bet that that was a constant sore for John, who still hasn't > gotten his long-promised, but little delivered re-entrant work done, but > he always had time enough to object to any other commits that might help > along the way. Strangely Julian and Matt could work together. One might > attribute certain commits to both Matt and Julian (if that would matter > anyway, since -core is interested in proving the opposite > statistically). > > If the issue here had anything to do with IPFW, then you all better get > out your C-coder hats and take a little more time to fix that rotting > pile of muck that has been the standard broken packet filter interface > for FreeBSD long past its possible usefulness. A packet filter with no > central maintainer which is subject to once yearly random feature bloat > through some wild university project from Luigi. The brokenness that > Luigi introduced (and the repository bloat through backing out and > recommitting, ad absurdum) was probably no less a threat to security > than anything Matt did. If the security officer was to be blatantly > honest with himself, ipfw would be marked broken for either a full audit > or full removal (just port obsd's pf or something that someone actually > actively _cares_ about). > > You've alienated Jordan, Mike, Bill Paul (for all I can see), Greenman, > you constantly rag on Terry, even though he's seen and done more with > FreeBSD than most of you, O'Brien is on the verge of quitting (since he, > like I, am not convinced that GEOM is anything more than an ego trip > that will never be completely maintained or usefully documented). There > are certainly others, too, that have attempted to make technically > correct contributions, but didn't fit into the sort of paranoid "glee > club" that core would like to have around them. You guys lack the > talent to steer the positive from Matt into the project and let the crap > fall by the wayside. I'm not saying Matt's rants are the most > intelligent thing he's done, but he's sat by the wayside and watch the > superstars beat up the code to a point where it's less stable, slower, > and more bloated than it ever was. I, for one, can understand his > frustration (as I can with Mike's, Jordan's, and a few others), although > I find his method of expressing it extreme, I often wished he'd have > just visited the offenders personally with a clue bat. > > All in all, history will judge if -core has made the right decision. I > personally believe it was a decision made in weakness. The loss the > project as a whole will suffer is greater than the bruised ego's the > -core has had to deal with in its communications with Matt. Matt was an > extremist, but he put up or shut up. I wish I could say that for most of > -core. This is a personality confict in a technical project. I'd say > that most of you take this just as personally as Matt did, but instead > of insulting him in a moment of anger, you shoot off your own respective > feet, lose a good deal of experience and embarass the man publicly. You > talk the talk of respect, but you aren't walking the walk. I'd say most > of you need thicker skin. In the end, FreeBSD folk will walk smiling > though the streets, but the project will become a cult of likeable > people, instead of one that achieved technical excellence. That will, > imho, be what history says of the current -core. Hint: lose the > touchy-feely, hack the code. > > Sincerely, > Maxim Hermion > FreeBSD committer > > PS: if I've offended anyone (yeah, I singled a few out), prove me wrong, > but spare me your insultedness. It's become a pathetic hobby in -core. > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >
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