From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 20:07:49 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61ABD16A469 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:07:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout4.cac.washington.edu (mxout4.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB2713C447 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:07:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from hymn01.u.washington.edu (hymn01.u.washington.edu [140.142.8.55]) by mxout4.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.05) with ESMTP id l5FK7meD020018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:07:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hymn01.u.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.03) with ESMTP id l5FK7mgd018664 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:07:48 -0700 X-Auth-Received: from [192.55.52.1] by hymn01.u.washington.edu via HTTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:07:48 PDT Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) From: youshi10@u.washington.edu To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <440b3e930706151229q79a0f051jeca1d20550da599e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-PMX-Version: 5.3.1.294258, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.1.298604, Antispam-Data: 2007.6.15.124933 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='SUPERLONG_LINE 0.05, NO_REAL_NAME 0, __CP_MEDIA_BODY 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HIGHBITS 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __RUS_HASHBUSTER_KOI8R 0, __SANE_MSGID 0' Cc: Subject: Re: Fwd: AMD deciding _now_ what to do about Linux X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:07:49 -0000 On Fri, 15 Jun 2007, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: > Hi, > > Sun's pushing ATI/AMD to provide good drivers for Solaris, so it means th= ey > will have to work on the portability issue of their drivers. It is probab= ly > the best time to influence AMD's decision since they are going to do what > Sun tells them. Nvidia has an easier time porting their drivers since the > core of the driver is the same across all platforms AFAIK. Hopefully, the= y > will realize the best stratedgy is to open source their drivers, which th= ere > has been some hints about it recently. > > --=20 > Ali Mashtizadeh > =D8=B9=D9=84=DB=8C =D9=85=D8=B4=D8=AA=DB=8C =D8=B2=D8=A7=D8=AF=D9=87 > > On 6/15/07, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2007 at 02:03:39PM -0400, Ali Mashtizadeh wrote: >> > Hey everyone, >> > >> > This email went out on Xorg I thought it might be useful for all of u= s >> stuck >> > with ATI cards. We should all show our interest in AMD helping out th= e >> BSD >> > community as well! Just like Nvidia has been doing! >> >> "Linux strategy" -- gotta love the use of the word "strategy", like >> they're playing chess or Risk or Daisenryaku. Yes, because supporting >> an operating system involves "strategy". >> >> Not to sound rude, but I wouldn't hold your breath over the statement. >> Yes, *absolutely* mail them and show support for the BSDs, and tell them >> you'll be happy to beta test whatever they put out (as long as they have >> a good feedback method for reporting those bugs; not some defunct HTML >> form web page that sends submissions to /dev/null). >> >> I believe AMD/ATI cares about providing a good driver base (for Linux >> and probably the BSDs), but no matter how many customers mail them, the >> reality of the situation is a disappointing one: managers and executives >> of sorts are who have say over all of this, who decide all of this, and >> who ultimately make the statements on all of this. As a Texan co-worker >> of mine says, "too many chiefs, not enough indians". nVidia has the >> same "problem", for what it's worth. >> >> -- >> | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com= | >> | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/= | >> | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA= | >> | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB= | 1. This shouldn't have been sent to the hackers@ list, because it's more of= a discussion than a technical topic. 2. Please top post. Disregarding those 2 comments, I have a few thoughts: 1. It doesn't matter which company you deal with, ATI/AMD, Intel, nVidia --= all are large corporations and swaying the interest of the execs and legal= depts to release corporate secrets and technologies is a big deal because = it's their competitive edges in the marketplace. 2. Intel did opensourced their graphics drivers, and of course there's been= a great deal of followup discussion about nVidia and ATI doing the same th= ing, but like Jeremy said I have little faith in the companies opensourcing= their drivers for at least 1-2 years because their secrets are their livel= ihood and they don't want competitors having access to them. 3. The ATI Linux drivers quite frankly suck right now. They're currently at= the stage that nVidia was 3-4 years ago with Linux (working, but not on al= l distros, quite a few hacks in place), and I wasn't impressed in the least= by them (hence I dumped my ATI card and purchased an nVidia one). 4. Sun is a lot different than Linux or FreeBSD. Sun is a software/hardware= vendor with plenty of financial collateral behind them, so their getting s= upport faster than FreeBSD is more likely, as long as the devs are there to= support Solaris. 5. I did email ATI about support and apparently I sent my message to the wr= ong section (I should have requested a driver enhancement, not filed bug --= I hate some online forms and their lack of clarity). But since I purchased= my nVidia card after the fact I never followed up on the reply I got from = ATI. I highly doubt your message gets shuffled away into nowhere; it would = create a bad corporate image to ignore current/potential customers ;). Cheers, -Garrett