From owner-svn-src-stable@freebsd.org Wed Aug 15 17:37:45 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B4F1069FB1 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:37:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adamw@adamw.org) Received: from mail-yw1-xc2a.google.com (mail-yw1-xc2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3995E70BAF for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:37:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adamw@adamw.org) Received: by mail-yw1-xc2a.google.com with SMTP id l9-v6so1391087ywc.11 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=adamw-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2o/D6NVOXAM/8mEYxoD28JjGviFQGRDibWQuQFfxxcc=; b=oOEJCZmSNIMxbI6aUuwLJr7q1c4vXPrNdmGvcSbR1o2z3mnxIYZ42Cm8oC0ygTNhm/ 1i7KeGO4jSaapgPABwQGUKzzY4zVoNpRs/LSPN+ohIXOjENl5wE5GZ8MnBdfqOgWbTaF GaKEALS0tygEi/inzk/bayE8AJDPPFbil3fXRi4NQ/DHbHadtsT6r1fueJCl4PApTNsD f2LbkyMsb5IUNNUYP7lFmITmMSk9sE0HIesaqx1wvJOsAY4YRIhSwMPdk4i+AzuCpp3c twNTO2fjzua8LgwH/6jRPoz/eAulrR5IPN6GUrxpDjJJECHPNGysly8olLf3RyQRtSUu jfmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2o/D6NVOXAM/8mEYxoD28JjGviFQGRDibWQuQFfxxcc=; b=G2sxwBFq83ND8eGHR4tyQFTBB/ty7rnw5abFxhHA7cumdqfEy+ukvTpPSd09bJsxHk jTtNcAwJvDgmBUc/amYAmlYg8F0sA1PZ4Kw+vF5QaKltmHeNWXfX6JhH661u+MJHvm26 2GsOni0Pt1coBPQGLZYga08bOdoVbdmDcnKgPF2moeKWtjOinaZJiIGOVnsV3ZMt+vLq BcW/AYQpThW8zQfge/8Z6dzgXp2LD9vA5RcabH3IFVQcCB0yTGF0u7dKGQ4CJP5+BhpV 5iM+yZekCPA+yveKS9HR75fud/SubeHoRJZMAodD5AgAqTVyT+bqT/YPbTzgqES8UrTL 8CMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlG6jG2Ot+vB7WTKLqhc8ALKnr5UPozrJovAGOQgmy+Rp9MFOdgl ulgaTqvpIgGKn29eabaLMlqEpTAbMm+PbVac1h9RmA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzNr0v3ahHAgKkEV0YkOjBAeNB3jimuDR9WH+1hxerJdSSWAWybq7eAyXKFmHstMvWs4BaLIj0LqwrZQyemLoQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:61cd:: with SMTP id v196-v6mr14574516ybb.246.1534354664537; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:37:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201808151607.w7FG7Smo048317@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: From: Adam Weinberger Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:37:28 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r337826 - stable/11/bin/ls To: kevans@freebsd.org Cc: rgrimes@freebsd.org, svn-src-stable@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org, svn-src-stable-11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: svn-src-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for all the -stable branches of the src tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:37:45 -0000 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM Kyle Evans wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM, Rodney W. Grimes > wrote: > > [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > >> On 14 August 2018 at 21:41, Rodney W. Grimes > >> wrote: > >> >> Author: kevans > >> >> Date: Wed Aug 15 01:29:02 2018 > >> >> New Revision: 337826 > >> >> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/337826 > >> >> > >> >> Log: > >> >> MFC r337506: ls(1): Enable colors with COLORTERM is set in the environment > >> >> > >> >> COLORTERM is the de facto standard, while CLICOLOR is generally specific to > >> >> FreeBSD and ls(1). > >> > > >> > I have already seen one "Who enabled %&*@(#$@) colored ls output in 12?" > >> > Seems that the defaults for xfce terminal is to have COLORTERM. > >> > >> If xfce's default is to request colour via the de-facto environment > >> variable then we should generally honour it -- the answer to the > >> %&*@(#$@) question is "you did, via your terminal's default." > > > > And I pointed that out to them, but it is kinda a POLA, people have > > had to take explicit action to get colorls, that is no longer true > > and that suprises them when they see it. > > > > I find the POLA angle kind-of hard to buy, though. Nothing in the base > system offers a way for the default behavior of ls(1) to be altered, > and this whole change is only honoring a de-facto standard for > indicating that a colored terminal is supported and desired. > > IMO, one should be aware of how the software they use is affecting > their environment and the kinds of repercussions these changes may > have. This is hardly the first bit of software that respects > COLORTERM, and it surely won't be the last (in general... no specific > plans here). =( Respecting the same env var that other OS's do seems like a reduction in POLA. Please consider putting a note in one or more of /usr/src/UPDATING, /usr/ports/UPDATING, and xfce/pkg-message explaining the change and what people should do to get the old behaviour. They're the best tools we have for improving POLA. # Adam -- Adam Weinberger adamw@adamw.org https://www.adamw.org