Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:55:36 +0100 From: Peter Schuller <peter.schuller@infidyne.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Chuck Robey <chuckr@chuckr.org> Subject: Re: csh programing book Message-ID: <200712172255.49706.peter.schuller@infidyne.com> In-Reply-To: <4766DAD8.3030006@chuckr.org> References: <200712141742.30001.cblasius@gmail.com> <20071217054303.GA33846@demeter.hydra> <4766DAD8.3030006@chuckr.org>
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> Well, I was only giving my personal opinion. I've never used irb, but
> it seems to me that using any sort of OO tool as a shell would be "cruel
> and unusual", but I guess it takes all kinds, and I certainly wouldn't
> prevent you from enjoying yourself, same as I'd expect from you to mine.
The "OO" nature of it really really does not come into play here as far as =
I=20
can tell. Whatever you can imagine with perl/python/your-favorite-language =
is=20
very likely as much possible, if not more so, with Ruby.
Certainly if writing something elaborate it comes into play, but then we ar=
e=20
away from the shell aspect of the discussion.
Doing:
system "myfile"
does not become any more obnoxious just because "myfile" happens to be an=20
object in a well-defined class-based object system. Nor does the function=20
definition:
def myfun(param)
...
end
Become obnoxious just because Ruby happens to be OO, for some definition of=
=20
OO.
My main concern is syntax. I would love to have a shell based on Ruby, Lisp=
,=20
or some other powerful language (anything that at least allows functions to=
=20
return values other than status codes... please). But I have yet to find on=
e=20
that makes it maximally simple and efficient to do the common stuff that yo=
u=20
use interactively - which is to run external processes.
scsh (Scheme Shell) comes pretty close; I have no objection to using it for=
=20
shell *scripting*. Neither might Ruby be an issue with sufficient API=20
support.
But I am not sure about using it interactively. When interactive, you don't=
=20
want to type even a single annoying character more than you have to. Or at=
=20
least I don't.
That said, scsh might be possible to tweak sufficiently. It actually manage=
s=20
to combine the power of Lisp with the convenience of shell scripting pretty=
=20
well (as always, by using macros). So you have pretty low-overhead syntax=20
like. For example, instead of:
more myfile
You have:
(run (more myfile))
If you imagine an interactive mode where a top-level (run (...)) would be=20
implied (under certain circumstances), you could make that be exactly=20
equivalent to the normal shell version:
more myfile
This is true even with parameters; the macros are such that you need not=20
explicitly make them strings (so "(run (ls -l /))" is valid for example).
I especially like the integration as soon as you want to do something sligh=
tly=20
intelligent. E.g.:
(run/strings (mystuff --list-something /path/to/db))
Yields an actual list of strings (one per line) that you can touch, pet and=
=20
otherwise have your way with even if you want to do something other than=20
piping it to the next process.
Not to mention having higher order functions at your fingertips...
In short, I would just love to have a single language for both tasks, not=20
having to "switch" from one to the other after some threshold of script=20
complexity. Unfortunately scsh has some issues (e.g., freebsd port is marke=
d=20
as broken om amd64 right now), so I dunno about counting on it being=20
available everywhere.
=2D-=20
/ Peter Schuller
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