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Date:      Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:28:52 -0800 (PST)
From:      Jake Hamby <jehamby@lightside.com>
To:        Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
Cc:        John Fieber <jfieber@indiana.edu>, hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   RE: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...)
Message-ID:  <Pine.AUX.3.91.960227151831.25917C-100000@covina.lightside.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960227212605.3966A-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee>

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On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Narvi wrote:

> Have you ever actually tried the windows sound control panel? Ever tried 
> it with having only the PC speaker? (Assuming you knew where to look and 
> got the sound driver for the PC speaker).

The Windows Sound control panel works great, what are you complaining 
about???  If you do have a sound card, or the PC speaker driver, then you 
can associate many events with .WAV sounds, if you don't, then what do 
you expect?  BTW, Windows NT explicitly does NOT support the PC speaker 
for digitized sound output because it is very CPU intensive and requires 
"real-time" programming to twiddle the bits (and doesn't sound very good, 
to boot).  If you notice in Windows 3.1 with the PC speaker driver, the 
mouse will seize up while its playing the sounds..  So the moral is BUY A 
SOUND CARD (that applies for any operating system, not just Windows)..

> Shut up! Windows was not the thing to start unified printing! Apple did 
> it much earlier! And talking about GDI - from where the hell comes the 
> thact that the same thing, using the same fonts, the same layout prints 
> out a bit different on just slightly different printers (just +- some 
> lines per some pages)? And once more the same question - have you tried 
> it all out? Yes, I know it sounds rude - more ruder all the time - but 
> the picture isn't just that beautiful... :(

Yes you are sounding a little bit rude, but that's okay..  Sure the Mac 
did it first, the Mac popularized a lot of GUI ideas that Windows stole, 
but the Mac stole them from Xerox PARC, so what's your point?  My 
argument was that Unix is missing these things, and Windows is a good 
example of what we should be shooting for in terms of GUI features.  As 
for printing, with the Mac you still have to have a Postscript printer 
(with few exceptions like their Inkjet), it doesn't support PCL like 
Windows does (or Unix with Ghostscript as a filter).  And thanks to 
Windows using GDI calls for printing (and the Mac using Quickdraw) you 
can get Print and Print Preview functionality with remarkably few lines 
of code (especially using MFC/C++ in Windows) because you're basically 
"drawing to the printer".

> For example, take the time and read the notes on differernces about the 
> printing code on Win31/Win32. 

Okay printing is a bit simpler under Win32, but it is simplest of all 
when you use the MFC/C++ framework.  What is your point, exactly?

> > I agree, 110%!  Come to think of it, the ONLY programs I've seen with a 
> > decent GUI (that are available on more than one vendor's flavor of Unix) 
> > are Netscape, and MAYBE Emacs.  That is if you don't count WINE, WABI, 
> > TWIN, and Softwindows (evil grin!) ;-)
> 
> Then you have really seen only a few.... :)
> 
> 	Grumpy Sander

Okay, I'm sure I missed some..  But give me some examples of really good 
(not just adequate) Unix GUI programs.  I mean a program where you 
don't have to consult the Man page to learn how to use it..ever!  Did 
those programs use Motif, Tcl/Tk, or something else?

---Jake



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