From owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Tue Dec 3 15:12:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C921B2111 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 15:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg@unrelenting.technology) Received: from out.migadu.com (out.migadu.com [91.121.223.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.migadu.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47S5853LT3z4V7G for ; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 15:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg@unrelenting.technology) Received: (Migadu outbound); Tue, 03 Dec 2019 15:12:51 +0000 Received: from wms0-eu-central.migadu.com (wms0-eu-central.migadu.com [139.162.159.86]) by out.migadu.com (Haraka/2.8.16) with ESMTPSA id 1A3586C4-867A-4FCF-8724-46E0EDBABEED.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 verify=FAIL); Tue, 03 Dec 2019 15:12:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 15:12:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: RainLoop/1.12.1 From: greg@unrelenting.technology Message-ID: <6d9f394c670a8426c61a3d075ffaf3e9@unrelenting.technology> Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 To: "Ed Maste" , "freebsd-arch" , "freebsd-arm" In-Reply-To: References: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; bh=soqF+E0oQCAULO2DoU7B+qJjFlar7ClmdzNHIiBaUCE=; c=relaxed/simple; d=unrelenting.technology; h=from:subject:date:to; s=default; b=Br9pfxi/MeDsR0CmuQges9iiK12F/m44E4SqikpDw4uPUHKVHW/QOAu/+2a5+Tap9aI9cNpk8yrjSfLgb5i3HRi5uHmv1fXpuRer1wd5Akoovt8DiUtyJss7A6n0bUi3YG+YQtDLTKGPK0nXr9vXmusRj7h8zJP4Ycw4huT/YwA= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47S5853LT3z4V7G X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=unrelenting.technology header.s=default header.b=Br9pfxi/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=unrelenting.technology; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of greg@unrelenting.technology designates 91.121.223.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=greg@unrelenting.technology X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[unrelenting.technology:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:91.121.223.63]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[unrelenting.technology:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[unrelenting.technology,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[63.223.121.91.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-2.30)[ip: (-9.84), ipnet: 91.121.0.0/16(-3.47), asn: 16276(1.84), country: FR(-0.00)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:91.121.0.0/16, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 15:12:54 -0000 December 3, 2019 1:57 PM, "Ed Maste" wrote:=0A=0A>> = Developers should be able to build packages on commonly available,=0A>> n= on-embedded Tier 1 systems. This can mean either native builds if=0A>> no= n-embedded systems are commonly available for the platform in question,= =0A>> or it can mean cross-builds hosted on some other Tier 1 architectur= e.=0A> =0A> This is somewhat of a challenge today - there aren't many arm= 64=0A> platforms readily available in a configuration most suited to=0A> = developer use, such as a 4- or 8-core system with 16GB of RAM and=0A> SAT= A- or NVMe-connected storage. Smaller systems (e.g. Pine64) are=0A> readi= ly available but not quite capable enough; larger systems (e.g.=0A> Marve= ll ThunderX and Ampere eMAG) are out of reach for typical=0A> developer u= se. User-mode QEMU cross-builds are a possibility, but this=0A> item is o= ne that should resolve over time as new platforms become=0A> available.= =0A=0AThe Marvell/SolidRun MACCHIATObin is an affordable 4-core (Cortex A= 72)=0Awith DDR4 (takes one full size DIMM), SATA, USB 3.0 and PCIe.=0AAnd= most importantly, excellent firmware support (upstream EDK2+TrustedFirmw= are).=0AThe PCIe is rather quirky (I really should make a proper blog pos= t already)=0Abut I have it working with a Radeon RX 480.=0AIt can be a de= cent developer desktop if you're fine with=0A"2013 era ultrabook" levels = of performance :D=0A=0AThough honestly if we're talking just about build = machines, the RPi4 is also=0Aa 4xA72.. Of course the elephant in the room= is the RAM :(=0ABut at least it has USB 3.0 for I/O, and we won't actual= ly need to support PCIe:=0Ahttps://github.com/pftf/edk2-platforms/commit/= f6469886e216390f460494b81a4a4bf78cb66ba8=0A=0AAlso, nothing in "non-embed= ded systems" says "hardware you physically own", right?=0AAn EC2 a1.4xlar= ge (spot) instance is an excellent way to build big software.