From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 13:49:24 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C624616A400 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 13:49:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.embarqhsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E33A13C489 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 13:49:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FDOIoZ032413 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 09:24:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id l4FDOCWP032412 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 May 2007 09:24:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bv) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:24:12 -0400 From: Bill Vermillion To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20070515132412.GA31934@wjv.com> References: <20070515120019.8B59016A416@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070515120019.8B59016A416@hub.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, J_CHICKENPOX_39,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on bilver.wjv.com Subject: Re: New FreeBSD packaging system X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 13:49:24 -0000 Throwing caution to the wind and speaking without thinking about what was being said on Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:00 , freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org blurted this: [much text deleted as I only am going to comment on one part - wjv] > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:34:52 -0700 > From: Bert JW Regeer > Subject: Re: New FreeBSD package system (a.k.a. Daemon Package System > (dps)) > To: Garrett Cooper > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org .... > > On May 14, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > > > Bert JW Regeer wrote: > >> On May 12, 2007, at 5:14 AM, Philippe Laquet wrote: > >>> Stanislav Sedov a ?crit : > >>>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 02:10:05 +0200 > >>>> Ivan Voras mentioned: > >>>>> - I think it's time to give up on using BDB+directory tree > >>>>> full of text files for storing the installed packages > >>>>> database, and I propose all of this be replaced by a > >>>>> single SQLite database. SQLite is public domain (can be > >>>>> slurped into base system), embeddable, stores all data in > >>>>> a single file, lightweight, fast, and can be used to do > >>>>> fancy things such as reporting. ... > >> I am able to understand many of the gripes with using a databases, > >> and have to import yet another code base into the FreeBSD base, > >> however as one of the young ones, and knowing sed/awk/grep and > >> SQL, I prefer SQL over having to process hundreds of text files > >> using text processing tools. It saddens me each time I run one of > >> the pkg_* tools that needs to parse the flat file structure since > >> it takes so long. I have friends running Ubuntu and their apt-get > >> returns results much faster. .... > > True. I was thinking of backup, and recreation from scratch, > > considering that the database wouldn't be more than a few megs. In > > place replacement just seems like a hairy situation sometimes.. ... > >> The experience I got from running SVN with BDB as the back-end > >> database to store my data, I say no thanks. In that case I would > >> much rather stick with the flat text files than go with a database. > > Well, a few comments: > > -Text files are bloated. Although many people are for XML, it > > takes much longer to parse than binary databases. > /var/db/pkg/ are all plain flat text files. I am not a supporter of > XML at all. > > -Custom text files require custom format capable parsers, no > > matter what the format, and the less coverage a parser has, > > the more probable the likelihood of bugs IMO. > We already have these in the pkg_* functions, so i'd hope they are > fairly solid! ... > I am not opposed to text files, other than that they can be slow. I > am against BDB because over the years, in my experience they have > shown to be extremely unreliable and easily corrupted. If we are > going to be making changes to the way the ports/packages store the > information about what exists, it should be done in such a way that > it is scalable and at the same time extensible (is this a word?). So why not take the same approach that is used in the password and shadow files. That way you have a plain text editable file which then builds the pwd.db and spwd.db files that are used by the system. Or am I missing something there. > Bert JW Regeer Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com