From nobody Sun Jul 3 19:46:17 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A978B66B1 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 19:46:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-YT3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-yt3can01on2057.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.115.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LbfZS222yz3KR2; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 19:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=oO7MXV5EAB9fH1bsYQa4YfLanFijHh+59NfIAUBxWbDEMwsyns5CAsziJgRM0/quzCGZGqVkv7E5NXddaq6Bh6BkmLNtmHybVunvgN7kj+AiaYYJDUUASmRvddRxoclneQQ6aU/zpaSXB5WfyF/XIgj9PW6tvEBtlVFqW3YDjhHZeQJmadE6whJJl0WCoQMveGbILyPl0OY8R2QirYOKxnTWKU9iYCxVUTnLHfUwd1k+eaGFibS4Eoj7KooKZKnJ/VrbZ9/PiFatG53RZWPI4Eyb/feb7oJfL7E77ENdTYY0AeGedkLfJ1CyfcvmVWPc92Mao58rVP+Rzq1OD8FdaA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=1J/w4wlQG8dCqbdmxhfq3SzWIqGdvFfvZVUvF8v0pcc=; b=Lw4MVQVBiWhgFqoDJg3p4hdA2RBxZ4SOopFZGECRzbZyRTu5dzCuOBQpL/G9CHC+gBkwlyl1AY7mWAgZ5hJcM6LX8ogaUzZmbIGKxNi6uf6bcNu52m4Ae0M5zCM559D4LHZk3k3puHlieOslIurBeABCOWtlkGCOoeywduDBp3PzsFxZsF2JtK8IctVbZX8qP0On6z2U3gfZgwkirdYr5abuDi7dGU4uqbyf4maaX0lX7r2Mq97cEFqfnr8HPKME93frM+XKzYSg8R/cxbXRxH1AXyVp6qNBlmb8AEoAvENrxZ6O/ZFgkIFswpoUnQrol9mi++aMgKTc9yNrZ+Oe4A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uoguelph.ca; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uoguelph.ca; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uoguelph.ca; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1J/w4wlQG8dCqbdmxhfq3SzWIqGdvFfvZVUvF8v0pcc=; b=JfyOB+dChqKEZJAYwBP+bQwGpYMJG52J/4UIhuxSAuy6mtvTaK7sucaAjz9T0QeGjSDyLE5kZnSz1bPGEE9oPiONjZcYuA1b4RwAN3kIiai4FzL/QaMUP50eYKHc5BEdybXEOosT8cFG390YPxG0PSCwjkuVKbrKuFeXmXoDpCExXlGm3oYSuDvQbjGITnCzHfO/EOo7lf7K7vb/iYUWxfEAsnxSxjpt73XHuh6Iptjf3egGVQC2q1X7+UB/khkc/qIKWxvGJTZXDFxG3bCvDLEYrbRzpPFHSCnqZdWAM5bsGsqmQWwpL5r2O24+q0/GFunjq08XfnfeojAKkGpytg== Received: from YQBPR0101MB9742.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c01:81::14) by YT1PR01MB8395.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:c3::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5395.15; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 19:46:17 +0000 Received: from YQBPR0101MB9742.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::c494:e35e:76d4:7d75]) by YQBPR0101MB9742.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::c494:e35e:76d4:7d75%8]) with mapi id 15.20.5395.020; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 19:46:17 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Kirk McKusick CC: FreeBSD Filesystems , Ed Maste , Gleb Smirnoff Subject: Re: RFC: Should intr/soft NFSv4 mounts be disabled? Thread-Topic: RFC: Should intr/soft NFSv4 mounts be disabled? 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MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.104.0.0/14, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.107.115.57:from] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Kirk McKusick wrote:=0A= > > From: Rick Macklem =0A= > > To: FreeBSD Filesystems =0A= > > CC: Ed Maste , Gleb Smirnoff = =0A= > > Subject: RFC: Should intr/soft NFSv4 mounts be disabled?=0A= > > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 21:57:21 +0000=0A= > >=0A= > > Hi,=0A= > >=0A= > > NFSv4 mounts using the "soft" and/or "intr" mount options=0A= > > have never functioned correctly. This is noted in the BUGS=0A= > > section of "man mount_nfs" and commit c0d14b0220ae=0A= > > added the generation of a warning message when such=0A= > > a mount is done. The breakage can occur when the server=0A= > > is slow/overloaded or network partitioned such that the RPC=0A= > > reply is not received for over 1 second, resulting in the RPC=0A= > > attempt to fail without the RPC reply being processed.=0A= > >=0A= > > Breakage of the protocol has become more frequent for=0A= > > NFSv4.1/4.2 mounts since, when a syscall returns before=0A= > > the RPC reply is processed, it leaves the session slot for the=0A= > > RPC non-usable. When all slots are non-usable, the mount=0A= > > is hung.=0A= > >=0A= > > During review of commit c0d14b0220ae, emaste@ asked if=0A= > > NFSv4 mounts using "soft" and/or "intr" should actually=0A= > > be disabled, so I am now asking others for their opinion=0A= > > on this? (Doing so will cause many extant mounts in fstab(5)=0A= > > to fail.)=0A= > >=0A= > > Thanks for any comments, rick=0A= > =0A= > I have always been of the opinion that "soft" mounts were useless=0A= > and would be happy to see them go.=0A= >=0A= > I find "intr" mounts to be preferable to "hard" in almost all=0A= > situations. Being in an editor or some other application and=0A= > being unable to ^C out of it when the server is not responding=0A= > is extremely annoying. I know that quite some effort went into=0A= > making NFS able to support "intr" and I think it would be worth=0A= > the effort to continue to make it a viable alternative.=0A= Well, I have a patch that is the last attachment in PR#260011, which=0A= keeps track of broken session slots and then does a Destroysession=0A= when they are all broken.=0A= This works ok, at least against a FreeBSD server (haven't been able=0A= to test in against other servers yet).=0A= --> I think this fixes the more common session case, so long as the=0A= Destroysession does the right thing for non-FreeBSD servers.=0A= --> If anyone can test this patch, please do so. (Unfortunately the=0A= patch looks different for main vs stable/13, so email if you need=0A= the one for main.)=0A= =0A= As for "intr" allowing a process to break out of an RPC,=0A= even with the above patch, it would break that open lock,=0A= but since the user no longer cares about the open working=0A= (the close might fail, but that is only a problem if the server=0A= does not do any cleanup and accumulates them) then=0A= I think this might be ok?=0A= =0A= > That said, it appears that Linux has deprecated "intr":=0A= >=0A= > https://access.redhat.com/solutions/157873=0A= >=0A= > Though they do still allow NFS hung processes to be killed with=0A= > SIGKILL so if that option is available it will (painfully) be=0A= > possible to get out of hung processes.=0A= Yes, I think the Linux client folk have disabled "intr" for the same=0A= reason (it screws up sessions and they have not figured out how=0A= to deal with that). Since Linux defaults to NFSv4.1/4.2 mounts=0A= for any server that supports that, their users probably see the=0A= breakage more.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= =0A= Kirk McKusick=0A= =0A=