From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 01:03:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361621520AAF; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9EB96B80B; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 01:03:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x21133hx060083 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x21133GE060082; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Doug Kirk Cc: FreeBSD X11 mailing list , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRM removal soon Message-ID: <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.2 (2019-01-07) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C9EB96B80B X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.44)[-0.438,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[washington.edu]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.83)[0.835,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[21.76.95.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: troutmask.apl.washington.edu]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.06)[0.060,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.05)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 128.95.0.0/16(0.16), asn: 73(0.06), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 01:03:07 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 06:35:14PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > (top posting fixed). > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 5:07 PM Steve Kargl > wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl < > > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites. :( > > > > > > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford > > > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years. > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It > > > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and > > > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004). > > > > I have a amd64 system with > > > > CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU) > > Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x600f20 Family=0x15 Model=0x2 Stepping=0 > > > > Guess what? Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video > > card (drmn0: ) I have is sort of not supported > > by drm-current-kmod. When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched > > /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a > > mfence memory barrier. I was advised by the graphics team to use > > drm-legacy-kmod. > > > > Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will > > be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list. > > At which point, I can rinse and repeat. > > > > > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here: > > > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ , > > and > > > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits. > > > > > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that > > > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when > > > you bought it? > > > > You have completely missed the point. I didn't buy the laptop > > in the last 2 or 3 years. It is several years old. The system > > was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed > > (which surprise effects i386 systems). > > > > It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387 > > FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision. Yep, > > I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work. Given the > > condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very > > few people do any numerical research with freebsd. > > > > > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by > > > setting up straw-man arguments. > > > > I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can > > be considered whining. When I commit a patch to the gcc tree, > > if it affects others, I work to fix the problem. I don't shoot > > the messenger. At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared > > about the quality of their work. > > > > I'm not FreeBSD developer, I don't want you thinking I am and blame them. > > But you've beat this horse dead already. No reason to rehash it again. > > I also value a high S/N ratio, as otherwise it's just wasting my time. > drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days. Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping drm-legacy-kmod. The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base. Hopefully, drm2/drm-legacy is not the shape of things to come. -- Steve