From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Tue Dec 5 16:12:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A5AE6F323 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:12:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pki2.com) Received: from btw.pki2.com (btw.pki2.com [IPv6:2001:470:a:6fd::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CA3680E83; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:12:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pki2.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by btw.pki2.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vB5GCAOp084471; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 08:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@pki2.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=pki2.com; s=pki2; t=1512490331; bh=+gr5qN97heD1poXai/BHjei2ofjIG2yb2xujAv7+eZQ=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; z=Subject:=20Re:=20Welcome=20flavors!=20portmaster=20now=20dead?=20 synth?|From:=20Dennis=20Glatting=20|To:=20Jan=20 Beich=20|Cc:=20Baho=20Utot=20,=20Steven=20Hartland=0D=0A=09=20,=20freebsd-ports@freebsd.org,=20Adam=20Weinberger=0D=0A=09=20|Date:=20Tue,=2005=20Dec=202017=2008:12:10=20-0800| In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20=0D=0A=09 =0D=0A=09=20=0D=0A=09=20=0D=0A=09=20<1512211 220.79413.1.camel@yandex.com>=0D=0A=09=20=0D=0A= 09=20<20171202184356.GA980@lonesome.com>=0D=0A=09=20=0D=0A=09=20<20800E88-36EC -49C4-A281-EA6BAB212DBF@adamw.org>=0D=0A=09=20<048e2faf-873e-beb5- 35fe-ad8f3f8ea5be@columbus.rr.com>=0D=0A=09=20<9BFBB00F-0786-4B92- A564-EABD0179BD93@adamw.org>=0D=0A=09=20=0D=0A=09=20<1512352031. 73246.1.camel@pki2.com>=20; b=CvpieKG+40pXw0tqqsua5DW39JVJrbPRH0KS8C4mvq3v6d1Yf8RzsL496LFSfPa7r vE6lvl9+WwBuQXn1t3ttbr02i7Vzio3ymZmUFusA/AkmSvUyIx3ttt7L5JRtAEhYTx 0uzW5a4+39dylmnBhKXOdmt7DRlLOJl6dX/c5UDdzDLuSN5WH9orydpVGhUKtfnAmK Vk3LZAz2SusHQThI22xekijonp7lVZENcRRllhCIVZ0Tbmkb6/OB3wqHcisFfn2RJU CmoWEMct/IEA+bMNopboQRa6Jim0t+tw04eGNPPP0vaRfoDrP4lo6/cD2rSWkuijti QuR5X+fClXHkA== Message-ID: <1512490330.66238.7.camel@pki2.com> Subject: Re: Welcome flavors! portmaster now dead? synth? From: Dennis Glatting To: Jan Beich Cc: Baho Utot , Steven Hartland , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Adam Weinberger Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:12:10 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <1512211220.79413.1.camel@yandex.com> <20171202184356.GA980@lonesome.com> <20800E88-36EC-49C4-A281-EA6BAB212DBF@adamw.org> <048e2faf-873e-beb5-35fe-ad8f3f8ea5be@columbus.rr.com> <9BFBB00F-0786-4B92-A564-EABD0179BD93@adamw.org> <1512352031.73246.1.camel@pki2.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.24.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-yoursite-MailScanner-ID: vB5GCAOp084471 X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-yoursite-MailScanner-From: freebsd@pki2.com X-Spam-Status: No X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:12:41 -0000 On Mon, 2017-12-04 at 18:10 +0100, Jan Beich wrote: > Dennis Glatting writes: > > > 1) I am tired of port breakage. I am past tired of being told to > > read > > UPDATEs when UPDATEs often has limited information, including > > install > > conflicts. > > > > 2) "Error 70" on installs with no indication of where the error > > was > > incurred and thus requiring me to make with debug flags and then > > dig > > deep is past annoying. > > [...] > > Further: > > > > 1) Under FreeBSD I do not do binaries, rather I do source and I do > > source for reasons. Under Linux, source is troublesome. > > I'm curious what are those "reasons" that don't affect Linux. Those > may > be valid FreeBSD shortcomings unlike what you've listed above which > is > mainly about source vs. binary packages. Source verses binaries are valid "reasons" and are based on application and operation placement. With source, I can compile out optional code (e.g., SQL hooks in OpenLDAP) whereas binary packages are often compiled to be all things to all people (i.e., more functionality is offered). Although one can argue that inclusion of compile-time optional code into a binary is only operationally enabled through a proper configuration, there are problems with that argument: 1) The compile-time optional code may not be truly disabled through configuration files, 2) Some functions are enabled by default, and 3) They represent threat vectors. If you do not include compile-time optional code then reduced threat vectors. Linux is a series of trade offs. If application code is written with CUDA then you have to support the application with all of its warts and baggage. If I /have/ to do source under Linux then I have to do source but I don't /want/ to do source because the process is often ugly. Another trade off, which annoys the hell out of me, is NetworkManager verses other "helpful" tools. None of those tools are fun when doing custom networking, which includes VLANs and IPv6 as if those are new advanced concepts, and configuration is different across Linux distributions including Debian Stretch and Raspberry PI3 although they're running nearly the same version of Debian. It is maddening. Hulk want to smash! With FreeBSD, I simply hack a few files in /etc and I'm good to go. Also under FreeBSD, what I need to configure in /etc is often obvious and I don't have to waddle through gobs of confusing, unrelated, and often erroneous documents and Internet posts. FreeBSD isn't perfect but FreeBSD has this useful thing called a Handbook. I can, and do, enable IPTables in Linux and IPFW in FreeBSD for added protections but if a threat vector isn't there (i.e., not in the binary) then there are less exploitable threat vectors - it's discernible math at that point. Do I want to manage lists of IPTables and IPFW? No. They get complex and create breakage paths. When one is required to have heterogeneous infrastructures one wants commonness and simplicity while at the same time not admitting to that bottle of whiskey in one's desk drawer. I often strip stupid stuff, such as NetworkManager, and life gets simpler and less migraine prone. That all said, my response was based on the point of that the finite resource sword cuts both ways. If one operating system increases my annoyance and another does not, there is a point where my bias leans. Oh, and "hell no" to Windows. It's evil and I live across Lake Sammamish from the Evil Empire. -- Dennis Glatting Numbers Skeptic