Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 17:49:19 +0300 From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk <m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com> To: User questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Using a FreeBSD desktop was somehting about dog food Message-ID: <CAOgwaMsv=5Q7kpdHRUqGSnX-Bnvu=56wap234WBp4E9UA8dsng@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20220327102810.00000e6d@seibercom.net> References: <38b7f44-6d54-fec6-c1f0-d3609d301687@safeport.com> <20220327081341.ef6a08004fb6986edf1b941e@sohara.org> <CAOgwaMsCgKrepam6v42Nk1M%2BnfWqk-yRWeqmKMMu9McsKfeVfQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAM8r67Bn-SEOwaw4V3hWnYkYv27YuvpufVCygnOJA4C_ioWZvg@mail.gmail.com> <20220327102810.00000e6d@seibercom.net>
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--000000000000248df105db344fdc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 5:29 PM Jerry Seibert <jerry@seibercom.net> wrote: > On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 14:18:06 +0200, Tomasz CEDRO stated: > >On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 11:26 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > > >> This means that trouble is not coming from "Open Source" but from > >> "Management of Use of Open Source " . > >> > >> > >> Over the years , without relentlessly I am mentioning this difficulty > >> point . > >> It seems that there is no hope to reach a solution to this problem > >> . I do not know why . > >> > > > >The root cause of this are ideologies. "change is good". "the only > >constant is change". "software development is about enforcing vision". > >This is mostly thanks to Microsoft. Fancy Linux "bleeding edge" > >followed. Then big tech like Google with Android and Smartphones did > >the same what Microsoft did with Windows and PC. Then Samsung > >followed. Then Apple followed. Now it's considered standard. Building > >something without solid fundaments plus constant change of the > >fundaments. > > > >Look at JavaScript and try to do anything with that mess, something > >fundamentally flawed but extremely available and popular, not to > >mention malware showing up more and more recently in various > >dependencies that are totally out of control. > > > >This mess impacts BSD world but it is not welcome here and I hope it > >never will. This is why I love BSD. More and more people can see that > >too :-) > > > >-- > >CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > > "Publish or perish " is an aphorism describing the pressure to publish > academic work to succeed in an academic career. A parallel can be drawn > between that analogy and the need for software and operating system > developers to innovate or wither on the vine. At the very least, they > need to stay competitive, which means they must keep current. > > FreeBSD never innovates and rarely stays even remotely current. They > are consistently behind other operating systems regarding innovation > and staying current with modern devices, i.e., the 555-BEOY: > Thunderbolt 3 PCIe Network and IO Card. {See: > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D237666} > > FreeBSD may be fine for commercial use in servers, but it is falling > seriously behind in the consumer market. The public, in general, is not > interested in using an OS that fails to run their favorite or > industry-standard software. Nor are they relishing the opportunity to > be held hostage to a system that will not accommodate modern hardware > devices. Even an ordinary, everyday item such as a printer driver can > be an exercise in futility with FreeBSD. Getting a current driver with > full printer support is difficult at best in way too many instances. I > contacted Brother USA a few years ago inquiring about a driver for a > high-end laser printer I had purchased. They had drivers for several > *nix products, but none for FreeBSD. The engineer I spoke to ran Linux > on his home PC and fully felt my pain. He explained that FreeBSD was > just not mature enough to invest the money and time required to produce > a full line of drivers. > > As I see it, FreeBSD will be relegated to the back of the pack for home > use. I do not know a single business, at least a fortune 500, or any > municipality that uses FreeBSD for their office PCs. If FreeBSD wants > to stay relevant in the home market, they need to up their game and > stop putting out a new version simply to put out a new version and > rather invest the time and effort required to correct the existing bugs > in FreeBSD and create drivers for newer devices. > > -- > Jerry > > And in the immortal words of Elvira Hancock's advice to Tony Montana, > "Don't get high on your own supply." > I am always mentioning that without a sufficiently large user base , approximately a large number of companies will not be interested in FreeBSD because they will not be able to sell products to FreeBSD users to recover their expenses . I am a subscriber of many FreeBSD mailing lists . It is very easy to store a copy of mailing list archives by using "wget" . If we count the current FreeBSD users , we will see that the number ( NOT value ) of them is small . Newcomers are very rare . In this world , there is a "Natural Law" saying that people will leave work after an age . This "age" is reaching consistently . Question is : "Who will make FreeBSD live ?" Whatever the point of looking at FreeBSD , the main point is the answer to this question . Generate technologically a very good open source Operating System , and , then , send it to the Cemetery of Operating Systems" ... Since 1970 , I saw that the number of residents of that cemetery is increasing fastly . There is plenty of land there . Do not worry , in this world , there is only one place where dying is prohibited : https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dplace+where+dying+is+prohibited&sxsrf=3DA= Pq-WBuZJ-1puca8zRJSYTkReVO0Rv1MWQ%3A1648392480219&source=3Dhp&ei=3DIHlAYvjt= Cv2Oxc8P4O2quA8&iflsig=3DAHkkrS4AAAAAYkCHMEihZgkG1A8Xs283yCYl9PuM6azX&ved= =3D0ahUKEwj4_ezBxOb2AhV9R_EDHeC2CvcQ4dUDCAY&uact=3D5&oq=3Dplace+where+dying= +is+prohibited&gs_lcp=3DCgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQAFgAYJsSaABwAHgAgAGPAYgBjwGSAQMwLjG= YAQCgAQKgAQE&sclient=3Dgws-wiz place where dying is prohibited Mehmet Erol Sanliturk --000000000000248df105db344fdc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon= t-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div></div><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 27, 2022= at 5:29 PM Jerry Seibert <<a href=3D"mailto:jerry@seibercom.net">jerry@= seibercom.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= ng-left:1ex">On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 14:18:06 +0200, Tomasz CEDRO stated:<br> >On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 11:26 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote:<br> ><br> >> This means that=C2=A0 trouble is not coming from "Open Source= " but from<br> >> "Management of Use of Open Source "=C2=A0 .<br> >><br> >><br> >> Over the years , without relentlessly I am mentioning this difficu= lty<br> >> point .<br> >> It seems that there is no hope to reach=C2=A0 =C2=A0a solution to = this problem<br> >> . I do not know why .<br> >><br> ><br> >The root cause of this are ideologies. "change is good". &quo= t;the only<br> >constant is change". "software development is about enforcing= vision".<br> >This is mostly thanks to Microsoft. Fancy Linux "bleeding edge&quo= t;<br> >followed. Then big tech like Google with Android and Smartphones did<br= > >the same what Microsoft did with Windows and PC. Then Samsung<br> >followed. Then Apple followed. Now it's considered standard. Buildi= ng<br> >something without solid fundaments plus constant change of the<br> >fundaments.<br> ><br> >Look at JavaScript and try to do anything with that mess, something<br> >fundamentally flawed but extremely available and popular, not to<br> >mention malware showing up more and more recently in various<br> >dependencies that are totally out of control.<br> ><br> >This mess impacts BSD world but it is not welcome here and I hope it<br= > >never will. This is why I love BSD. More and more people can see that<b= r> >too :-)<br> ><br> >--<br> >CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, <a href=3D"http://www.tomek.cedro.info" rel=3D"norefer= rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tomek.cedro.info</a><br>; <br> "Publish or perish " is an aphorism describing the pressure to pu= blish<br> academic work to succeed in an academic career. A parallel can be drawn<br> between that analogy and the need for software and operating system<br> developers to innovate or wither on the vine. At the very least, they<br> need to stay competitive, which means they must keep current.<br> <br> FreeBSD never innovates and rarely stays even remotely current. They<br> are consistently behind other operating systems regarding innovation<br> and staying current with modern devices, i.e., the=C2=A0 555-BEOY:<br> Thunderbolt 3 PCIe Network and IO Card. {See:<br> <a href=3D"https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D237666" rel= =3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bu= g.cgi?id=3D237666</a>}<br> <br> FreeBSD may be fine for commercial use in servers, but it is falling<br> seriously behind in the consumer market. The public, in general, is not<br> interested in using an OS that fails to run their favorite or<br> industry-standard software. Nor are they relishing the opportunity to<br> be held hostage to a system that will not accommodate modern hardware<br> devices. Even an ordinary, everyday item such as a printer driver can<br> be an exercise in futility with FreeBSD. Getting a current driver with<br> full printer support is difficult at best in way too many instances. I<br> contacted Brother USA a few years ago inquiring about a driver for a<br> high-end laser printer I had purchased. They had drivers for several<br> *nix products, but none for FreeBSD. The engineer I spoke to ran Linux<br> on his home PC and fully felt my pain. He explained that FreeBSD was<br> just not mature enough to invest the money and time required to produce<br> a full line of drivers.<br> <br> As I see it, FreeBSD will be relegated to the back of the pack for home<br> use. I do not know a single business, at least a fortune 500, or any<br> municipality that uses FreeBSD for their office PCs. If FreeBSD wants<br> to stay relevant in the home market, they need to up their game and<br> stop putting out a new version simply to put out a new version and<br> rather invest the time and effort required to correct the existing bugs<br> in FreeBSD and create drivers for newer devices.<br> <br> -- <br> Jerry<br> <br> And in the immortal words of Elvira Hancock's advice to Tony Montana,<b= r> "Don't get high on your own supply."<br></blockquote><div><br= ></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br= ></div><div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" cl= ass=3D"gmail_default">I am always mentioning that=C2=A0 without a sufficien= tly=C2=A0 large user base , approximately</div><div style=3D"font-family:ta= homa,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">a large number of = companies will not be interested in FreeBSD=C2=A0 because they will</div><d= iv style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_d= efault">not be able to sell products to FreeBSD users to recover their expe= nses .</div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" cl= ass=3D"gmail_default"></div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;fon= t-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">I am a subscriber of many FreeBSD mai= ling lists .=C2=A0 It is very easy to store a</div><div style=3D"font-famil= y:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">copy of mailin= g list archives by using=C2=A0 "wget" .</div><div style=3D"font-f= amily:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">If we coun= t=C2=A0 the current FreeBSD users , we will see that the number ( NOT value= ) of</div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" cla= ss=3D"gmail_default">them is small .=C2=A0 Newcomers are=C2=A0 very rare .<= /div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"= gmail_default"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-s= ize:large" class=3D"gmail_default">In this world , there is a "Natural= Law" saying that people will leave work after an</div><div style=3D"f= ont-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">age .= =C2=A0 This "age" is reaching consistently .=C2=A0 <br></div><div= style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_def= ault">Question is : "Who will make FreeBSD live ?"<br></div><br><= /div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-s= ize:large" class=3D"gmail_default">Whatever the point of looking at FreeBSD= , the main point is the answer to this question .</div><div style=3D"font-= family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">Generate = technologically a very good open source Operating System , and , then ,</di= v><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gma= il_default">send it to the Cemetery of Operating Systems" ...</div><br= ></div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font= -size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">Since 1970 , I saw that the number of = residents of that cemetery is increasing fastly . <br></div><div style=3D"f= ont-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">There= is plenty of land there .<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-s= erif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">Do not worry ,=C2=A0 in this = world , there is only one place where dying is prohibited :</div><div style= =3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default">= <br></div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" clas= s=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;f= ont-size:large" class=3D"gmail_default"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/s= earch?q=3Dplace+where+dying+is+prohibited&sxsrf=3DAPq-WBuZJ-1puca8zRJSY= TkReVO0Rv1MWQ%3A1648392480219&source=3Dhp&ei=3DIHlAYvjtCv2Oxc8P4O2q= uA8&iflsig=3DAHkkrS4AAAAAYkCHMEihZgkG1A8Xs283yCYl9PuM6azX&ved=3D0ah= UKEwj4_ezBxOb2AhV9R_EDHeC2CvcQ4dUDCAY&uact=3D5&oq=3Dplace+where+dyi= ng+is+prohibited&gs_lcp=3DCgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQAFgAYJsSaABwAHgAgAGPAYgBjwGSA= QMwLjGYAQCgAQKgAQE&sclient=3Dgws-wiz">https://www.google.com/search?q= =3Dplace+where+dying+is+prohibited&sxsrf=3DAPq-WBuZJ-1puca8zRJSYTkReVO0= Rv1MWQ%3A1648392480219&source=3Dhp&ei=3DIHlAYvjtCv2Oxc8P4O2quA8&= ;iflsig=3DAHkkrS4AAAAAYkCHMEihZgkG1A8Xs283yCYl9PuM6azX&ved=3D0ahUKEwj4_= ezBxOb2AhV9R_EDHeC2CvcQ4dUDCAY&uact=3D5&oq=3Dplace+where+dying+is+p= rohibited&gs_lcp=3DCgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQAFgAYJsSaABwAHgAgAGPAYgBjwGSAQMwLjGY= AQCgAQKgAQE&sclient=3Dgws-wiz</a></div><br></div><div>place where dying= is prohibited</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div = style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class=3D"gmail_defa= ult">Mehmet Erol Sanliturk</div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di= v><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div> --000000000000248df105db344fdc--
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