From owner-freebsd-current Fri Mar 10 01:56:54 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12067 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:56:54 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA12059 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:56:50 -0800 Received: from tartufo.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA20931; Fri, 10 Mar 95 01:52:58 -0800 Received: by tartufo.pcs.dec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:51 MET Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:51 MET From: me@tartufo.pcs.dec.com (Michael Elbel) To: swallace@ece.uci.edu Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: backspace now broken (proposal) Newsgroups: pcs.freebsd.current References: <199503071452.PAA28231@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199503071851.AA27949@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Reply-To: me@FreeBSD.org Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In pcs.freebsd.current you write: >What is the big deal with ^H being erase? >All you have to do is: > stty erease "^H" >if you want your backspace to be delete/erase. It's the deal that you know this and I know this. But there's people out there who a) don't know it b) won't understand why the *default* configuration of their system doesn't do the expected thing after being freshly installed. This will: - Generate quite a lot of questions that otherwise wouldn't happen as FreeBSD gets more widespread use from "end users" - Will have a number of people dismiss FreeBSD as being usable on the grounds of "They can't even make the BS key work properly". Things like these tend to be mentioned in magazines. Don't tell me you don't want people to use FreeBSD that would dismiss it on such weak grounds, it's entirely reasonable. What would you think about a VCR you bought in the States that you have to switch to NTSC from it's default PAL setting even though it came with a NTSC TV? Asking the producer, Grundig, a Eurpean firm, you'll get the answer that this was always the default and that they won't change it since there might be somebody who wants to hook it up to a PAL TV. Folks, I thought we were trying to get FreeBSD recognized as a solid operating system that's easy to install and use not only for the knowledgeable kernel hacker. Little things like this don't really say much about the actual stability and quality of a product. But they are immediately visible to the person who looks at something casually. We don't need any negative publicity that can be avoided. So I'll repeat it the third time, imagine the following two lines being bright red: Make the system consistent. Make the *default* code generated by the BS key be the *default* erase character. Joerg said that there's other console drivers than syscons that have DEL generated by the BS key and that because of this the default erase char shouldn't be changed. I thought one of the advantages of FreeBSD over Linux was that there's a core team of people who set the standards. So there, we *need* a standard about what the BS key should generate *per default by the default console driver*. Then make the *default* erase character be that code. If alternative console drivers don't comply with this standard, though shit, they'll have to either change their own *default* behaviour or tell people to modify their system when they modify the *default* configuration to not use the *default* console driver. Notice, how often I've highlighted the word *default*? I think it's essential for FreeBSD to work reasonably in its default configuration. Since everybody has the sources, one can hack the setup as much as one likes if one wants something different. So please, dear core team members, vote on it, fight over it, do whatever you want, but lets have a bit of consistency here. It'll make things much easier in the future. Michael -- Michael Elbel, Digital-PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@FreeBSD.org Fermentation fault (coors dumped)