From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 22 21:32:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074D516A4CE for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp3.adl2.internode.on.net (smtp3.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DFC543D1D for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:32:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malcolm.kay@internode.on.net) Received: from beta.home (ppp36-48.lns1.adl1.internode.on.net [150.101.36.48]) i1N5VtUK013101; Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:01:55 +1030 (CST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Malcolm Kay Organization: At home To: Niel , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:01:54 +1030 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200402211258.13361.niel@telia.com> In-Reply-To: <200402211258.13361.niel@telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200402231601.54943.malcolm.kay@internode.on.net> Subject: Re: I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple to use? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:32:02 -0000 On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:28, Niel wrote: > Written 21st january 2004. > > I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple to use? > > I have a dream, of a help/manual/doc system, which is simple, and yet > comprehensive to use. > > When I need help to some question, when using freebsd, I often get very > confused, and cannot find out how to do it. > > Often I find some manual, but then pages and pages start scrolling past= my > eyes, and soon I am very confused, and my brain looses track of what it > trying to do. Often there is some tecnical abbreviations mixed into the > explanation, which we do not know at all, what is! > > There exist a very comprehensive documentation for freebsd, man, faq et= c. > So far, that is very good. Leave it as it is. That is okay for later > reading. > > But what I am searching for, is very short manuals for every topic and > program. How to install it, where the files are sitting, how to set-up. > Just a very simple example, for just to get a basic program running. An= d > also a very basic example for using the program, so you at least are > getting it up and running. Then you can later experiment with more > complicated items og the programs. > > I am also in search for a very big handbook, with cross reference word,= for > ALL words. So you can find out, where to look, every thinkable word you > might meet, when installing and using freebsd. > > I am a newbee, and I cannot simply remember, where I last read -or foun= d a > subject. I mean, most endusers simply do not have such a glue brain, th= at > they can remember. (Many times they simply tells themselves: "Let me st= ay > with windows. That I am used to.) > > I have tried using linux red hat, caldera and suse, and I have now begu= n > using FreeBSD, and I find it the best system so far, with the most easy > help system. Nothing wrong with that. > > To sum up. Please simple manuals for all the some 6.000 programs, shell > commands, etc, with lots of simple to understand examples, so one at le= ast > can get started. > > This is just a newbees hottest wish. > > Even Microsoft have not yet found out, how important above is. It is th= e > alpha and omega, for using operating systems and programs, for ordinary > people. ( I have even found the same problems in manuals for tv, video = and > so on. ) > > I mean many people have difficulties just reading a simple explanation. > > It is okay, to make very sophisticated programs, but it is as important= , > that the enduser can find out, how to use it. > > And, please use simple English words. We enduser come from all parts of= the > world, and do not all have the English language as our native language.= And > please no humour! :-) If you live in Africa, you do not know American > slang? > > > Yes, I still have a dream ..... *smiling - positive* > > Regards, > > A freebsd "Grassroot", hoping to saw just a tiny seed in some smart > programmers mind, so we can start begin really using UNIX type operatin= g > systems, instead og windows 98! *serious - thinking - :-) * I think you are looking for a computer that can read your mind. In the meantime it is hard to imagine a help system that works better tha= n the=20 unix man pages. Admittedly there are some instances of missing man pages, poorly written pages and pages not conforming to conventions -- but these represent a very small fraction of the whole. Generally items can be foun= d=20 without too much irrelevant garbage to sift through as in Microsoft help = systems. (There is some very useful information hidden away in the Microsoft=20 system but have not found out how to find it when it is required -- it on= ly ever pops up when looking for some totally unrelated information.) As for the GNU info system, it is a little better the M$ but generally ra= ther cumbersome -- difficult to find the particular aspect you are looking for= =2E Better suited for tutorials than as a help reference. Of course there are also things like KDE help, which states the obvious b= ut in which=20 you can't find the non-obvious because it is not there. So rather than trying to invent a new approach with a new set of shortcom= ings try enhancing the existing man pages by filling the gaps and rewriting wh= ere=20 appropriate. I can appreciate validity of your remarks with respect to th= e impact of American slang and humour on non-Americans. On the other hand it can b= e difficult to distiguish between slang and idiomatic use of the language. I would pr= efer pages=20 written in International English rather than American. But in regard to p= rogramming=20 related pages I guess one has to admit that most programming languages ar= e=20 based on the American wriiten language rather than English. For me the man pages make all other attempts at help systems look very Mi= ckey Mouse (with appologies to Disney). Malcolm