From nobody Sun Feb 18 11:11:31 2024 X-Original-To: ports@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Td30H3Qd1z53sFK for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com (mail-ua1-f49.google.com [209.85.222.49]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Td30H1mkpz4Llb for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7d2e15193bbso1897698241.0 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:11:59 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708254718; x=1708859518; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SmSAdSg4K6N/SXKALnFDYPzcq2tLmrLLKMwbIz2vu04=; b=prKRNu3YBav4oJpbfM17doMHr0eEM0I8Vjxoi2PMd/KO5uEPRu+Jd62jsrF3GfCfXX 1QR9OL9GFgNj7HadoSuBKHNFkvVOtr6K76VO8YM5OSunuaMgEei/c4W0mbkZ3g0nVkuK 8Q9t1EvbijlpoYqCENb5jpy5wFjPOP1jgXvJIznnW8tZA5N0gYQGmlFtSEI68wpeYBXW jfKtPkfeeq49NdQhkqMGaVT6HoUPx4GqRfZmFbbhfSZdz/rNfII94a4OLC1TuWmpnw7E EsK7AD4Mq6D7Bp9PZUIh7l+jOL1r5NtxpbRXovjKCZv3pezrBjovOgLlRcoHjwpFIwxX kHEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwVGqj8YxF1OSu8PmX3cUjJL9m/CY4W5/Ncf8Sd/2IpSKpl62nZ E3lipMCww9g68bJVcZdFSzeHVj1D19j5LrwoRrRkuz21hQg0SdPTHB+t5Fwmfx4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF8byvl4LW4D9qt+YgTDESmyel1PChSe8U8v1ZvQKf5bDgH5qkBztaTIu/W3HExCRUNuat/og== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:5cc:b0:470:4702:8c35 with SMTP id v12-20020a05610205cc00b0047047028c35mr2474244vsf.25.1708254718263; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-f48.google.com (mail-ua1-f48.google.com. [209.85.222.48]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l75-20020a1ffe4e000000b004c9793bed42sm234701vki.37.2024.02.18.03.11.58 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-f48.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7d2e21181c1so1854949241.3 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:11:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:1294:b0:470:50e4:efed with SMTP id jc20-20020a056102129400b0047050e4efedmr1098322vsb.19.1708254717927; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 03:11:57 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-ports List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240218015843.34c5d078@rimwks.local> <7q6ep7m2eee6yqtxftlwkhuwdkssd74vjow55txms7lkokazfu@grrqllhefges> <20240218174921.a8082649142dd43a469bebfa@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <4ekno7iwxvdlw4xeholcrxuuazmcstxkqyidrz27ni43lzu6wg@3ro6r5b2vhoi> In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:11:31 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Re: FreeBSD ports community is broken To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: ports@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Td30H1mkpz4Llb X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 5:16=E2=80=AFAM Felix Palmen = wrote: > > > > * Tomoaki AOKI [20240218 17:49]: > > > [a lot about automotive regulations] > > > > That's a nice example how comparisons of entirely different domains > > almost always go completely wrong. > > I guess you have never heard of software engineering? > > Also the OP is 100% right there is a lot of "brokenish" in the ports > community for example no maintainer should ever be banned from -ports@ > but I have been for reasons never explained to me and thus am at a > severe disadvantage when asking for help (like how to switch from yacc > to bison without errors and such). > > > > > To start with, cars (and especially individual parts) typically aren't > > subject to consumer customizations, and if they are, it's way outside > > the manufacturer's responsibility. Here, we were talking about breakag= e > > that only happened when you customized your port builds. We aren't > > talking about security-relevant breakage either. > > Yes they are customized all the time. What do you think "options"? > (same for planes.) > > And sadly (speaking as the maintainer of 3 different ports > [devel/aegis, devel/fhist, devel/tailor and when I get time to > unbreaking it and taking maintership devel/cook]) there has to good > customizations that can be done after market without breaking the > ports (for example we use the actual tools above significantly then > how they where designed to be used but due to being the maintainer > still need to maintain the orginal behavior also) > > > > > > As explained in the PR as well, of course we add (temporary) workaround= s > > to *individual* ports when it seems necessary. We certainly don't add > > workarounds to the framework itself unless it's perfectly clear there > > will be no other way. Not even considering yet that just fiddling with > > CFLAGS has the potential to break a lot of other things when done > > globally. > > The framework has been broken for a long time. It should not require > prodiere running on a supermassive machine to work (in many cases > portmaster and make install recursion fail where prodiere works). It does not. The thing is: contributor submissions should be buildable in Poudriere because this is the way official packages are produced. You are free to build on the host locally, but it hides some errors which then break the build on our cluster. Without Poudriere you just have to be more cautious and perform more thorough testing. > Forwarding to all original recipients because of being blocked from the -= ports@ list Your mail comes from ports@, you're not blocked.