From owner-svn-src-stable@freebsd.org Wed Aug 15 17:44:33 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903FF106A365 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:44:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B92771292 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: d8d88d2a-a0b2-11e8-904b-1d2e466b3c59 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound2.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id d8d88d2a-a0b2-11e8-904b-1d2e466b3c59; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:44:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w7FHiNww075553; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1534355063.1466.6.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: svn commit: r337826 - stable/11/bin/ls From: Ian Lepore To: rgrimes@freebsd.org, Kyle Evans Cc: Ed Maste , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-stable@freebsd.org, svn-src-stable-11@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 11:44:23 -0600 In-Reply-To: <201808151736.w7FHaPiw048871@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> References: <201808151736.w7FHaPiw048871@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: svn-src-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for all the -stable branches of the src tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:44:33 -0000 On Wed, 2018-08-15 at 10:36 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:07 AM, Rodney W. Grimes > > wrote: > > > > > > [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > > > > > > > > On 14 August 2018 at 21:41, Rodney W. Grimes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Author: kevans > > > > > > Date: Wed Aug 15 01:29:02 2018 > > > > > > New Revision: 337826 > > > > > > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/337826 > > > > > > > > > > > > Log: > > > > > >   MFC r337506: ls(1): Enable colors with COLORTERM is set > > > > > > in the environment > > > > > > > > > > > >   COLORTERM is the de facto standard, while CLICOLOR is > > > > > > generally specific to > > > > > >   FreeBSD and ls(1). > > > > > I have already seen one "Who enabled %&*@(#$@) colored ls > > > > > output in 12?" > > > > > Seems that the defaults for xfce terminal is to have > > > > > COLORTERM. > > > > If xfce's default is to request colour via the de-facto > > > > environment > > > > variable then we should generally honour it -- the answer to > > > > the > > > > %&*@(#$@) question is "you did, via your terminal's default." > > > And I pointed that out to them, but it is kinda a POLA, people > > > have > > > had to take explicit action to get colorls, that is no longer > > > true > > > and that suprises them when they see it. > > > > > I find the POLA angle kind-of hard to buy, though. Nothing in the > > base > > system offers a way for the default behavior of ls(1) to be > > altered, > > and this whole change is only honoring a de-facto standard for > > indicating that a colored terminal is supported and desired. > > > > IMO, one should be aware of how the software they use is affecting > > their environment and the kinds of repercussions these changes may > > have. This is hardly the first bit of software that respects > > COLORTERM, and it surely won't be the last (in general... no > > specific > > plans here). =( > You can say it isnt a POLA, but the user was asstonished when it > happened and made the comment, hence forth, it is POLA. > > Personally, I dont care, I do not use xfce's default terminal, > I specificially invoke xterm. > I would expect the thing that would lead to the most astonishment by most users would be "Even though I (or my shell) set COLORTERM, nothing in freebsd respects that and I still have to turn 18 other knobs to get color support from standard utilities." There's not much I hate more than colored output in my preferred black- on-white terminal windows, but having to enable or disable that support in multiple places is the kind of thing that would rank right up there. -- Ian