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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 18:18:30 -0600
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From: Tony Kimball <alk@Think.COM>
To: hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: GAS question
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   From: Nate Williams <nate@sri.MT.net>
   Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:21:49 -0700
   Subject: Re: GAS question

   > not so much the Emacs command set, per se, as the fact that it's a
   > huge memory pig.

   And VC++ isn't?  I can run Emacs IDE in a smaller memory footprint than
   VC++ if I leave out X.

5MB for emacs w/X.  I'm guessing 4MB for vc++.  Emacs tends to keep a lot
resident on my machine, but then I rarely swap so I don't complain.

   > I guess I could live with unguessable command syntax (how do you
   > exit microEmacs, anyway?) if I had printed documentation.  Which
   > I have for VC++.

So buy the doc from FSF.  That's not hard.  You get a half-decent Lisp
environment too.

Actually, it seems a worthwhile effort to provide a stone-dumb
interface package for X Emacs, and a VC++-mode, just to lure in the
suckers.  Once they write an elisp rmail sorter, they're hooked for
life.  What would need to be added to Emacs?

1) Alt-C Alt-V Alt-X Alt-Z F-keys, in compile-mode bindings
2) More menu items
3) Improvements to tags
4) dissassembler

   From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
   Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:30:48 -0700 (MST)
   Subject: Re: GAS question

   VC++ has a 2-4M footprint... or, actually, "Microsoft Developer Studio"
   has that footprint.  My machine that it's installed on has 16M, but 12
   of that is for Windows 95 and the broken VCACHE code for cache utilization
   backoff (that isn't fixed, even in their most recent update, publically
   available soon).

The speed difference between a VC++ build-all w/16MB and one with 32MB
is almost a factor of two for me.  For gmake on a similarly sized project
it is less than 10%.  This is WinNT vs FBSD.

   > $VC++ 4.0 is $495 w/out documentation.  Docs are another $150 +
   > shipping, and are now superceded by the pending VC++ 4.1 release.

   This is retail price.  This is not what you pay for an MSDN Level 2
   SDK/DDK/VC++ subscription.

You don't get VC++ w/ the level 2 subscription (which was $495/an last
I bought in).  You get it w/ the level 3 subscription (which I *think*
is $995/an).

   > You're arguements against using Emacs apply as well to VC++, so are
   > moot.

   Not so.  I can click Icon's and menus without having to remember it.

That is true enough.  But then I don't remember the Emacs key commands
myself.  My fingers do.  Emacs is my login shell on some machines, so
I suppose I'm biased.