From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 16 02:25:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59616E54 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 02:25:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E1F627 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 02:25:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pd2mr1so-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.110]) by pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2014 20:25:25 -0600 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=s+0R4JzlRBUW8GXF//6L4/AwYJegyFoFyppZH3AfVto= c=1 sm=1 a=FKkrIqjQGGEA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=9lKKxuPNAAAA:8 a=5mcg790sAAAA:8 a=Egt7mgeBkfc-Lbbyc7MA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9rsXVv_AoXEA:10 a=gdz70AyagvgA:10 a=FmFjq_XsxoQA:10 a=V9bHfo9xCFkA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=KmvEVN2X624SDG_B:21 a=turk-xDMAH8uMqj8:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO cds005.dcs.int.inet) ([10.0.141.22]) by pd2mr1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 15 Oct 2014 20:25:25 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Client-ID: 3635 X-Mailer: BlackBerry Email (10.2.1.3247) X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.1.4_GA_2567 (MobileSync - RIM-Q10-SQN100-1/10.2.1.3247) Message-ID: <20141016022524.6484117.6250.3635@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: minder From: Dale Scott In-Reply-To: <57856.76.192.184.214.1413423271.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> References: <543ED1D6.3000500@saveouraquifer.org> <543ED8C1.9090508@gmail.com> <543EF466.3070908@saveouraquifer.org> <543F0C42.1060401@gmail.com> <543F12EF.8020207@saveouraquifer.org> <57856.76.192.184.214.1413423271.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> To: Walter Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 02:25:32 -0000 =A0 Original Message =A0 From: Valeri Galtsev Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:34 PM To: Walter Reply To: galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: minder On Wed, October 15, 2014 7:35 pm, Walter wrote: > On 10/15/14, 8:07 PM, Rolf Nielsen wrote: >> On 2014-10-16 00:25, Walter wrote: >> > On 10/15/14, 4:27 PM, Rolf Nielsen wrote: >> >> On 2014-10-15 21:58, Walter wrote: >> >>> but it's hard to know how useful these are without trying them >> >>> all, and I'm hoping people here can guide me. Ultimately, I'm >> >>> interested in secure, encrypted p2p operations starting with >> >>> basic messaging, which will run on Windows-something, Mac, and >> >>> Linux (BSD) OS's. >> >> >> >> And just as pear is a flavour of apple, BSD is really a flavour >> >> of Linux... Right? >> > I may run BSD on some servers, but most people run Linux with a >> > desktop. And if it runs on Linux, it will likely run under BSD. >> >> > Or am I wrong on that? Or that most people use Linux over BSD? >> >> > Walter >> >> That wasn't my point. My point was that the form "Linux (BSD)" is >> dangerously close to calling BSD a Linux distro, which it isn't. > I'll try to be clearer then: I know the BSD's are not Linux distributions= . > I know FreeBSD is it's own OS. But I also know FreeBSD has a Linux > compatibility layer, where it can run Linux programs. Maybe not all > of them, but at least some. > > Desktop Operating System Market Share: > http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=3D= 10&qpcustomd=3D0 > Windows 7 > > 52.71% > Market Share of Windows XP > > Windows > XP > > 23.87% > Market Share of Windows 8.1 > > Windows > 8.1 > > 6.67% > Market Share of Windows 8 > > Windows > 8 > > 5.59% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.9 > > Mac > OS X 10.9 > > 4.05% > Market Share of Windows Vista > > Windows > Vista > > 3.07% > Market Share of Linux > > Linux > > 1.64% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.6 > > Mac > OS X 10.6 > > 0.74% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.8 > > Mac > OS X 10.8 > > 0.60% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.7 > > Mac > OS X 10.7 > > 0.57% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.1 > > Mac > OS X 10.1 > > 0.25% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.5 > > Mac > OS X 10.5 > > 0.14% > Market Share of Windows NT > > Windows > NT > > 0.05% > Market Share of Mac OS X 10.4 > > Mac > OS X 10.4 > > 0.04% > Market Share of Windows 2000 > > Windows > 2000 > > 0.02% > Market Share of Mac OS X (no version reported) > > Mac > OS X (no version reported) > > 0.01% > Market Share of Win64 > > Win64 > > 0.00% > Market Share of Windows 98 > > Windows > 98 > > > > > Linux has 1.64% market share, but no flavor of BSD makes the list. > I don't think saying Linux is more popular should be a major point of > contention. > > So, my thinking is that if a family of an application runs on Windows, > Mac, and Linux, it would be popular enough not to die out, and > likely to get all the bugs ironed out. AND, if it runs on Linux, FreeBSD > will likely run it too; that's what I meant by my poorly written words > "Linux (BSD)." > > So, can someone help me with a URL to find Minder documentation, and > can I elicit experiences with BitMessage, RetroShare, OpenDC, and the > like. > I'll be starting with FreeBSD and Mac but intend to add Windows and would > like to include Linux also. Thanks. > You would need to exclude desktop users and look at servers specifically to= draw any meaningful conclusions as consumer devices (e.g. commodity comput= ers and phones) will skew the numbers and make the relative percentages mea= ningless. I purport there is *no* significant use of FreeBSD by desktop use= rs, OS X is almost exclusively on desktops, and although there are a lot of= Windows servers, the majority of licenses are on desktop computers. Compounding the difficulty to make valid comparisons is determining the tot= al number of FreeBSD (and Linux) installs when these OS's are freely downlo= aded with no record of use (and how many systems the OS was installed on), = and with a large number of systems behind firewalls and/or not serving web = pages to the public (a significant source of this type of metrics, in the a= bsence of anything better, is to hit all the publically accessible web serv= ers and analyze their responses to *infer* the OS). Compare this to a Microsoft OS, where MS can report actual licenses issued,= but also inadvertently (or on purpose) skew the total by including license= s purchased by OEMS (HP, Lenovo, Dell, etc.), and not necessarily the numbe= r in the hands of end users.=20 Lies, damned lies, and statistics..... Dale ---- www.dalescott.net Transparency with Trust