From nobody Mon Oct 6 11:45:54 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cgHXZ5l30z6BNRb; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 11:46:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cgHXY73sgz4JRn; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 11:46:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-6-240.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.6.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 596BjtTs056287; Mon, 6 Oct 2025 20:45:55 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1759751156; bh=nWYNL5QsezjtaVvaFhxfIlmQh60OzE2y69nC2Lc/xeM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=tWrEaz82oOk5ZQPHE5eAhAdcn7fFob7meKPxwSHeD7k9ZTE/Mb2BHX/vw5O1UWOdZ nNp/Jgm6ZGahKROdFwsDGlJJZ8aGj+RUyhvRKXcdFYV5h5HY5+tKRvWFP1qYV5Nd6/ Ex1czxaQOh59jz0BExDsAkAq0W3kD79zS/myhKbA= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2025 20:45:54 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Lexi Winter Cc: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, cperciva@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disallowing 'make installworld' with pkgbase Message-Id: <20251006204554.d1ea4dc8671f72e70f678875@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cgHXY73sgz4JRn On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 03:03:17 +0100 Lexi Winter wrote: > hello, > > in 15.0 we will ship pkgbase as an alternative to the dist sets for base > system installation. pkgbase is entirely optional and for at least 15.0, > we will continue to support dist set installation with freebsd-update. > > the traditional source update method, using make buildworld installworld, > will be supported indefinitely and there are no plans to remove this even > after dist sets and freebsd-update are dropped. > > however, while both update methods will be supported individually, they > cannot be used together, i.e., if you installed the system with pkgbase, > you should not attempt to update it using "make installworld" because > this will cause the installed system to become out of sync with the > pkg(8) database. > > instead, you have two options: update with "make buildworld packages" > and pkg-upgrade(8), or depkgbasify the system and then update using > make installworld as usual. either of those options is fully supported, > but you have to choose one of them to avoid breaking your system later. > > (the procedure to "depkgbasify the system" is not entirely clear yet, > but we will need something like this at least for 16.0, so there will > be some way to do that.) > > all of this preamble is to be as clear as possible that the review i'm > about to link is *not* about removing support for 'make installworld' > (we aren't going to do that) and does not prevent you from doing anything > you currently do. with that in mind, i would like to land this for 15.0: > > "Makefile: Don't allow install{world,kernel} with pkgbase" > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D52879 > > the point of this change is to avoid the situation where a user installs > 15.0 with pkgbase, then tries to upgrade using 'make installworld' out > of habit, not realising that this will break their system. users who > are really sure they want to do this still can using DESTDIR=/, and > users who don't use pkgbase are completely unaffected by this change. > > so, if anyone has an objection to this change, please say so. Isn't there at least one edge case with D52879? What I can think of is *pkgbase installation, */usr/local/ and /var/db/pkg/ (/var/cache/pkg/, too, possibly?) are NOT in root partition, *running `make installworld` in single user mode, *any of the partitions / datasets that above-mentioned directories exists are NOT mounted. For these cases (I think typically seen in old installations that are kept on upgraded), IMHO, a marker file (something like /etc/wall_cmos_clock for indicating CMOS clock is NOT set to UTC) in /etc/ (or somewhere promised to be in root partition) would be safer. Regards. -- Tomoaki AOKI