From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 30 04:25:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9806016A4CE for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:25:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E4F43D55 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:25:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from imp2-q.free.fr (imp2-q.free.fr [212.27.42.2]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D70FC016; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by imp2-q.free.fr (Postfix, from userid 33) id 2C136194D9; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:25:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from 219.64.140.225 ([219.64.140.225]) by imp2-q.free.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:25:09 +0100 Message-ID: <1101788709.41abf62519b57@imp2-q.free.fr> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:25:09 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Jason C. Wells" References: <20041129024602.GA23324@turingmachine.mentalsiege.net> <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 219.64.140.225 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The beastie boot menu. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:25:13 -0000 Quoting "Jason C. Wells" : > Of the things I read about > Dragonfly, user friendliness is not one of the things I recall as being a > design goal. It is, very much so. But not immediately. A lot of fundamental infrastructure (VFS in particular) is changing first. My problem isn't that user-friendliness isn't a design goal for FreeBSD: it is that a large and influential section of the FreeBSD community is actively hostile to user-friendliness, usually on the grounds that "this is the traditional BSD way". The csh/tcsh battle was won by the user-friendliness argument, but that was an exception, and even that bikeshed continues to pop up several years after the fact. Another example is packaging of the base system. This does not mean turning BSD into Red Hat, it means being able more easily to remove optional components, and having less junk (like stale header files) lying around after an installworld. People have posted patches on FreeBSD lists to register parts of the world in the pkg database, but there's no chance of it becoming mainstream. Rahul