From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 18 03:13:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0759106566B; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC438FC13; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa03 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa03.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q0I2PM6p000892; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:13:09 -0600 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.16]) by ltcfislmsgpa03.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 12djcf0jru-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:13:09 -0600 Received: from [10.77.172.196] (10.14.152.28) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:13:04 -0600 References: <4F15C48F.7020302@barafranca.com> <20120117224123.GC509@over-yonder.net> <4F16331E.4000702@freebsd.org> <20120118030532.GG509@over-yonder.net> In-Reply-To: <20120118030532.GG509@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8C148) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8C148) From: Devin Teske Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:12:50 -0800 To: "Matthew D. Fuller" X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.28] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.5.7110, 1.0.211, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-01-17_09:2012-01-17, 2012-01-17, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: "" Subject: * Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 03:13:11 -0000 On Jan 17, 2012, at 7:05 PM, "Matthew D. Fuller" = wrote: > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 06:49:02PM -0800 I heard the voice of > Julian Elischer, and lo! it spake thus: >>=20 >> 5 was not out on a limb for so long because it was a clusterfun, it >> was out there because it was a rework of how almost everything in >> the kernel worked. >=20 > I'm not saying it was a cluster because it was a huge amount of very > deep work; it's because that huge amount of very deep work completely > gated our next release. Now, sure, changing external circumstances > caught us with our pants down, and the tools we were using (like CVS) > made it hard to do anything else. But that just means there were > good reasons why it happened; doesn't make it less clusterfull :) >=20 >=20 > The two circumstances (giant rework, and long period between major > releases) are duals of each other. If we chop off giant piles of > stuff to do for FreeBSD-next, it's going to take a very long time. > And if we instead just set very long times (Jan 2017 for 10?! > Insanity!) for -next, we're going to end up with giant reworks and > huge differences. >=20 > And _both_ faces are very bad. The one means we wait forever for any > new work, and the other means that it takes enormous amounts of work > as a user to transistion across the barrier. >=20 We could adopt a cycle similar to the Linux Kernel... Odd numbered releases are "experimental" while even numbered releases are "= stable" (ducks for flying fruit) _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.