From owner-freebsd-questions Mon Jun 11 7:34: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from charlie.callgtn.com (charlie.callgtn.com [209.47.57.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1472437B407 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from erothwell@callgtn.com) Received: from callgtn.com [24.114.251.145] by charlie.callgtn.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A6CC19540114; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:33:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3B24D6D2.6C72125@callgtn.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:33:54 -0400 From: Erik Rothwell Reply-To: erothwell@callgtn.com Organization: xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Leimbach , questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intuitive interface - was RE: vi References: <20010609142241.A424@mutt.home.net> <000c01c0f241$0a458c60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010611063721.A542@mutt.home.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Leimbach wrote: > > Think about how "intuitive" the arraingement of letters on a typewriter > > keyboard is - it's the God of Standardization here that is being > > worshipped - not an intuitive > > interface. > > > Yeah and technically bandwidth [another misused term] is really not the amount > of data you can exchange between one point and another. Its just a range of > frequencies which may or may not help you get data across. > > I may have huge bandwidth but it its noisy forget about data.... :) > > Intuitive interface most likely falls in to this category of misused terms. > > You feel they should say "common" or "easy" interface. There are lots of > crusades I could take up for the sake of terminology but I really don't care > enough to run around trying to correct everyone. Eventually if enough people > accept what everyone is saying a certain term means... it becomes a meaning > for the word. > > Words are just symbols used to express a meaning and these meaning change over > time... To argue traditional meaning against popular meaning seems futile and > the subject becomes noise that makes people promptly ignore it altogether. > > This happens when the argument becomes stale a repetitive. I totally agree > with you that intuitive is the *wrong* word to use for any tool a human might > learn to use... But that is what makes us primates so special is our ability > to use tools. [Ever seen an ape *fish* for ants in a dead tree?]. I bet > that ape had to learn how to use the stick too. I don't really thinking "intuitive" is a bad word to be using in some circumstances to describe UI operation. How "intuitive" a program is depends less on how "common" or "easy" it's interface is and more on how easily, quickly, efficiently, "realistically" etc. that one can figure out how to do something with the program. By "realistically" I mean that programs should work in as close a manner as possible to everyday, real world axioms -- i.e. we should find things, files, menus, commands, etc. where we'd inherently expect to find them: if I put my pen down on the table, and walk away, chances are good that when I come back to the table my pen will still be there, in the same place -- rogue pen theives aside ;). Therefore, for instance, directory structure is intuitive. It's a good way classifying things, first, so it's more intuitive than.. say.. a single directory into which all files go. Perhaps intuitive for a disorganized person :) -- but then computers should operate as humans see fit, and much like a messy desk, we see monstrous home directories filled with absolutely every sort of file imaginable without any attempt at organization. ("My Documents" folders as well :)) Nevertheless, when you put something into a directory, leave the directory, and come back -- the file is still there. (Evil h4x0rs or user error, aside ;)). One step further -- the MacOS 9 Finder is a0 particularly good example of "spatial computing": when I open a folder, put a file in it, close the folder, and return -- my document is not only there, but in the same screen position in which I left it. Things of this nature are "intuitive." The intuitiveness of a program, I think, as well, is just a measure of how quickly and easily one can figure out a program simply by *using* it. If the menu options or commands required by a program make some logical sense -- determined by past experience, perhaps, or perhaps simply the over-all self-consistance of the program's UI -- and fall into the place you'd expect it -- the place you'd intuit it to be. A directory listing command "ls" and "dir" are both intuitive. More so, perhaps, is "list files" or selecting a folder, choosing File -> Open (ignoring the double-click, for now.) from a set of menus. Listing a directory by typing "xaksaja" is less intuitive than any of these options, significantly. The other end of the spectrum would be something like... putting the command to save your work 25 levels down in a menu structure that starts with "Graphics Options" -- this is counterintuitive and plain bad UI design. So, I don't think the word intuitive as applied to user interfaces is strictly a misnomer for "easy" or "common" interfaces. You quickly understand what "intuitive" is when you see some truly unintuitive or counterintuitve user interfaces :) Erik. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message