From nobody Wed Jan 15 19:30:13 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYGLR3j0Sz5kY7x for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:30:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from webmail5.jnielsen.net (webmail5.jnielsen.net [IPv6:2607:f170:34:11::b0]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.freebsdsolutions.net", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYGLR1Nf3z3Qp9 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:30:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple ([50.207.241.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail5.jnielsen.net (8.17.2/8.17.2) with ESMTPSA id 50FJUNlQ044164 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) X-Authentication-Warning: webmail5.jnielsen.net: Host [50.207.241.62] claimed to be smtpclient.apple From: John Nielsen Message-Id: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:13 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Dennis Clarke To: Current FreeBSD References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYGLR1Nf3z3Qp9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6364, ipnet:2607:f170:30::/44, country:US] --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jan 15, 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke = wrote: >=20 > Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big > three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user > type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a > month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With > FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one > can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here? >=20 > So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong. >=20 > Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some > magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that > dance on the rainbows. >=20 >=20 > Failed: ?? >=20 > Poudriere lately always says fail. >=20 > Every day. >=20 >=20 > Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the > logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled > with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. = This > is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red = Fat. >=20 > Why do I always see things like this : >=20 > Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 = Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 >=20 > Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every = day. >=20 > [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 = Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: = 295 Time: 00:03:39 >=20 > It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. >=20 > So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine. >=20 > The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long > time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. >=20 > For a long time now. >=20 > So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be, > you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type? Am I lost here ? >=20 > If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that > up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette. If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the = pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and = unicorns notwithstanding). If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a = supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. = When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the = maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate = mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are = running and other configuration details as well as the exact error = output. Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails = port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I = don=E2=80=99t see any such reports in the mailing list archives = (https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view = the results of the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also = uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: = https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/ On a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped = ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. = (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-q= uarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa) I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system = and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an = appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the = online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) = listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building. Good luck, JN= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Jan 15, = 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> = wrote:

=    Over the past month or so I see endless fails in = builds for the big
three user facing window manager things. This = means that a simple user
type person can not get a desktop. Really? = Yes really. For at least a
month or more you can not build KDE5 nor = LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With
FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it = exists in source form and one
can compile *anything* needed. Am I = wrong here?

    So correct me, with a taser = to the left, gently, if I am wrong.

Sure, a user can just use = whatever packages are being provided by some
magic server somewhere = in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that
dance on the = rainbows.


       Failed: =  ??

       Poudriere = lately always says fail.

=        Every day.


Every = time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the
logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled
with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a = user. This
is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not = IBM or Red Fat.

Why do I always see things like this :

=    Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1  Skipped: 9 =  Ignored: 0  Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0   Time: = 00:09:43

Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even = 15.0 ?  Every day.

[142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] = [parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20  Failed: 0 =   Skipped: 0   Ignored: 0   Fetched: 0 =   Tobuild: 295  Time: 00:03:39

It will fail. For = 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest".  Fail.

So I am = happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine.

The = whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long
= time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over.

For a = long time now.

So then, do I labour under the false assumption = that FreeBSD can be,
you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human = type?  Am I lost here ?

If the power to serve is just a = backend server. Then fine. State that
up front and lets drop the = whole user stuff into a deep = oubliette.

If you want to get = a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the pre-built packages = (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and unicorns = notwithstanding).

If you choose to build all of = your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put = more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you = are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port = file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). = Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as = well as the exact error output.

Note, however, = that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers = on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don=E2=80=99t see = any such reports in the mailing list archives (https://lists.fr= eebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view the results of = the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also uses poudriere) = by following the instructions here: https://peop= le.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/

On = a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped ports = related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/b= eefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-quarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa= )

I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more = troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if = you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the = freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ = or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are = having problems building.

Good = luck,

JN
= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7--