Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 06:18:11 -0500 From: Aryeh Friedman <aryehfriedman@gmail.com> To: Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> Cc: ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re: FreeBSD ports community is broken Message-ID: <CAGBxaXm0PsZRaJsPRxBTyAMxMhe%2BOU_cWErenm-upP0k0=thew@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CALH631kcLJ9KFREovOQXmcbTi1Mbj_dCQuhBqLX%2BPbO6gKJj_w@mail.gmail.com> References: <20240218015843.34c5d078@rimwks.local> <7q6ep7m2eee6yqtxftlwkhuwdkssd74vjow55txms7lkokazfu@grrqllhefges> <20240218174921.a8082649142dd43a469bebfa@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <4ekno7iwxvdlw4xeholcrxuuazmcstxkqyidrz27ni43lzu6wg@3ro6r5b2vhoi> <CAGBxaXnBTF=-V55pbQNJ5czRihAOZvAt53UNzzYT=bgBiqwQ0w@mail.gmail.com> <CALH631kcLJ9KFREovOQXmcbTi1Mbj_dCQuhBqLX%2BPbO6gKJj_w@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 6:11=E2=80=AFAM Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> wro= te: > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Aryeh Friedman <aryehfriedman@gma= il.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 5:16=E2=80=AFAM Felix Palmen <zirias@freebsd.or= g> wrote: > > > > > > * Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> [20240218 17:49]: > > > > [a lot about automotive regulations] > > > > > > That's a nice example how comparisons of entirely different domains > > > almost always go completely wrong. > > > > I guess you have never heard of software engineering? > > > > Also the OP is 100% right there is a lot of "brokenish" in the ports > > community for example no maintainer should ever be banned from -ports@ > > but I have been for reasons never explained to me and thus am at a > > severe disadvantage when asking for help (like how to switch from yacc > > to bison without errors and such). > > > > > > > > To start with, cars (and especially individual parts) typically aren'= t > > > subject to consumer customizations, and if they are, it's way outside > > > the manufacturer's responsibility. Here, we were talking about break= age > > > that only happened when you customized your port builds. We aren't > > > talking about security-relevant breakage either. > > > > Yes they are customized all the time. What do you think "options"? > > (same for planes.) > > > > And sadly (speaking as the maintainer of 3 different ports > > [devel/aegis, devel/fhist, devel/tailor and when I get time to > > unbreaking it and taking maintership devel/cook]) there has to good > > customizations that can be done after market without breaking the > > ports (for example we use the actual tools above significantly then > > how they where designed to be used but due to being the maintainer > > still need to maintain the orginal behavior also) > > > > > > > > > > As explained in the PR as well, of course we add (temporary) workarou= nds > > > to *individual* ports when it seems necessary. We certainly don't add > > > workarounds to the framework itself unless it's perfectly clear there > > > will be no other way. Not even considering yet that just fiddling wit= h > > > CFLAGS has the potential to break a lot of other things when done > > > globally. > > > > The framework has been broken for a long time. It should not require > > prodiere running on a supermassive machine to work (in many cases > > portmaster and make install recursion fail where prodiere works). > > It does not. The thing is: contributor submissions should be buildable > in Poudriere because this is the way official packages are produced. > You are free to build on the host locally, but it hides some errors > which then break the build on our cluster. Without Poudriere you just > have to be more cautious and perform more thorough testing. Wonderful: Are we now moving to the binary pkg only for mere mortals then. For example my desktop is a fairly standard 12 core machine with 24 GB of RAM and plenty of disk space (on SSD's) but yet Proudrie slows the machine down so much that xorg becomes unresponsive or the machine used for any other purpose (yes I know this can be customized to make it work but that *SHOULD NOT* be the default case). One reason I started with FreeBSD in the first place and not linsucks is it is/(was?!?!?) completely buildable from source (including 3d party packages) on a completely normal desktop (at least til about 2018 and I started using FreeBSD in 1993). So when is it going to be possible for a mere mortal like the machine above to use portmaster or recursive make install since Poudrie is a machine killer
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